Newbie's Guide - Analytical Minds

[DKaiser]

It's been a while since we've had one of these papers. Still, it's a topic that pops up now and again, and one that I have turned my research to as of late, in regards to improving my own acceptance of hypnosis. Most hypnosis literature disdains the 5%, those that are very hard to get suggestions to stick with. I believe I have some insight into that, and how to make it work for such folk.

Analytical Minds
A person's consciousness has a stream of thoughts, directed where we will about certain things, along with unconscious feelings that flavor those thoughts. The analytical mind is similar, but adds a sort of feedback loop, one where the mind is always looking at its own thoughts and critiquing them. Active thinking, some people might call it. This is handy in many aspects of life, but in hypnosis it tends to be a serious handicap.

When one looks at the idea of hypnosis, it is that of implanting suggestions into the subconscious without conscious verification. Statements are accepted, and processed according to the nature of the person accepting them. While they are still filtered based on that person, the mind doesn't reject them simply for being unreal. When dealing with an analytical mind, it is much harder to induce such a state. Even when dropping into a deep trance, the mind continually thinks and ponders on the suggestions, causing that filtering even when the conscious mind is technically shut off. To be deep is not enough, we must also turn off the loop.

That is not to say that hypnosis is impossible for analytical minds. I note that I have, on occasion, had great success with files, and sometimes none. I attribute this not to some oddity of chance, but rather that I was working with a file which, at that moment, was desirable enough to me that I was willing to give it the benefit of the doubt. One does not doubt that the road in front of their eyes is what is, and it is that sort of unconscious acceptance we need to foster here.

What needs to be done with the analytical mind, thus, is twofold.
Depth - The usual hypnosis experience.
Acceptance - The willingness to let things be.
Most files are catered to the first, with good reason. Still, in working on acceptance, I find that it is best for the analytical mind to adopt a sense of "letting the suggestions happen". Before starting a trance, fill your mind with thoughts about the subject, then relax, and let it all go. Know that it will come in time, and the more passive you are, the easier it will be to happen. It is a hard balance to pull, as if you desire something, it agitates the mind such that it analyzes it greatly, but with extended practice, even an analytical mind can find what deep hypnosis has to offer other minds.

[mystic-wolf]

I think this is the issue i've had with hypnosis, since i analyze a lot of stuff and get lost in my thoughts easily, even in relaxation my thoughts drifted randomly not necessarily based on the suggestions.

[DKaiser]

Well, there's a difference between random thoughts and analyzing. Analyzing is where your mind immediately goes "no, that suggestion can't be real, because I know reality doesn't work that way". It's a sense of even when a suggestion sticks, it'll fade quickly, or something will break your focus and it'll undo.

Random thoughts are more a matter of concentrating the mind before the session. Spend 5-10 minutes before you trance thinking about what you're going to trance to, getting your mind focused on that sort of imagery and thought line, and then even if you start getting sleepish in trance, your random thoughts will drift towards the subject matter at hand, keeping things going smoothly. Pictures of the subject matter to look at while doing so are good too.

[Foxfuz]

I have had trouble having suggestions work because of constant failure and having an analytical mind. What I did to make files work and make sure that random thoughts and analysis to stop was to promise myself to think about the file after it is done. So if I were to think of something during the file I would remember to leave the thought for after I'm dome trancing.

A parallel to this is when a speaker tells the audience to hold all questions until the end of the show. Same concept.

[mystic-wolf]

Some days i'm able to focus other times not, lately i've been having a weird feeling that makes me a lot more impatient, i've sadly mostly given up on hypnosis, even though i was getting a bit succesfull with the cow anthro file, i only felt things but never got illussions even when my thoughts drifted to different images of cow anthros, i know that it takes months, but transformation files have been the only ones i've been interested in, so i'm mostly looping files while playing games, watching videos or other things on the computer/laptop, i think thats my best gamble to do hypnosis

Maybe i should buy something like an MP3 and download files on them so i can loop them while sleeping.

[HornyDude]

deleted

[lew897]

Wow thanks for that explaination. I was trying to figure out what two files were doing to me since they made it a million times easier to trance to files. Usually, Id just say it was the files, but I think that acceptance is defiantly part of what it is doing. Thanks!

[papotik]

Since i started to listen your files, i become more passive, like let see what happen. But it seem as i analyze less i fall asleep, is it possible , or i go just deeper in trance with amnesia ?

[Alien4420]

It's been a while since we've had one of these papers. Still, it's a topic that pops up now and again, and one that I have turned my research to as of late, in regards to improving my own acceptance of hypnosis. Most hypnosis literature disdains the 5%, those that are very hard to get suggestions to stick with. I believe I have some insight into that, and how to make it work for such folk.

Analytical Minds
A person's consciousness has a stream of thoughts, directed where we will about certain things, along with unconscious feelings that flavor those thoughts. The analytical mind is similar, but adds a sort of feedback loop, one where the mind is always looking at its own thoughts and critiquing them. Active thinking, some people might call it. This is handy in many aspects of life, but in hypnosis it tends to be a serious handicap.

When one looks at the idea of hypnosis, it is that of implanting suggestions into the subconscious without conscious verification. Statements are accepted, and processed according to the nature of the person accepting them. While they are still filtered based on that person, the mind doesn't reject them simply for being unreal. When dealing with an analytical mind, it is much harder to induce such a state. Even when dropping into a deep trance, the mind continually thinks and ponders on the suggestions, causing that filtering even when the conscious mind is technically shut off. To be deep is not enough, we must also turn off the loop.

That is not to say that hypnosis is impossible for analytical minds. I note that I have, on occasion, had great success with files, and sometimes none. I attribute this not to some oddity of chance, but rather that I was working with a file which, at that moment, was desirable enough to me that I was willing to give it the benefit of the doubt. One does not doubt that the road in front of their eyes is what is, and it is that sort of unconscious acceptance we need to foster here.

What needs to be done with the analytical mind, thus, is twofold.
Depth - The usual hypnosis experience.
Acceptance - The willingness to let things be.
Most files are catered to the first, with good reason. Still, in working on acceptance, I find that it is best for the analytical mind to adopt a sense of "letting the suggestions happen". Before starting a trance, fill your mind with thoughts about the subject, then relax, and let it all go. Know that it will come in time, and the more passive you are, the easier it will be to happen. It is a hard balance to pull, as if you desire something, it agitates the mind such that it analyzes it greatly, but with extended practice, even an analytical mind can find what deep hypnosis has to offer other minds.

I struggle with this all the time. The one suggestion I have the most trouble with is the suggestion to stop thinking!

I've found that this isn't a problem when I'm amenable to a suggestion. Then, it registers very quickly, even on the first listen. But when my analytical mind is engaged and I'm in light trance, I find that the suggestions I'm resistant to don't take hold.

For the last month or so, I've been listening to EMG's Train Susceptible daily, and I've found that every day, my trances become deeper and the deep trances longer lasting. In the course of this, I've noticed that my analytical mind tends to kick in after every phrase, and after ever change -- even the change in EMG's voice where the induction is spliced to the body, or to changes in my own state, e.g., if I fall into deep trance, I'll sense the change and think "I just went into a deep trance" -- at which point I'm no longer in deep trance!

I've tried several techniques to deal with this. Having my analytical mind echo the hypnotist's words, either in real time or a bit after, can keep it occupied for a while, but seems to preclude the deepest trance. Just shutting it down and going back to deep trance can work, if I can do it. Sometimes, I can suppress my analytical mind when it appears.

So I've made progress. But I'm still not where I'd like to be.

One of the changes I've made, with the help of Train Susceptible, is to induce amnesia after ever file. This keeps my analytical mind from repealing the suggestions when I'm no longer in trance, which it can do quite effectively. Simply thinking about not remembering the file can substantially increase my adherence to the post-hypnotic suggestions.

I think that there's also truth in what someone suggested in this thread, that if you can put yourself in a more receptive frame of mind the analytical mind is more likely to stop playing watchdog. But I find that hard with suggestions that in some cases go against some very deep-seated resistance.

I suspect that those of us who are analytical are afraid to let our subconscious mind do its thing without being second guessed. That, as you suggest, can have benefits, but it also has the effect of making the subconscious harder to change through suggestion, since the analytical mind inserts itself between the suggestion and the subconscious, and it can prevent or destroy the irrationalities that make hypnosis work.

It's still a struggle for me and I don't know what the optimal solution will be, but I seem to be making remarkable progress, and I'm hoping that not only will I be able to spend extended time in deep trance but that I'll be able to accept suggestions like false memories that my analytical mind ordinarily demolishes in seconds (but that something like 27% of the population can apparently be hypnotized into having). I already feel myself getting closer to literal belief, and I've been astonished in the last few days to see a deep fear that's been with me most of my life (a consequence of strongly negative experience in childhood) virtually vanish, because I'm no longer resisting the suggestions in trance.

[Jadit]

After 1 and half years of listening to hypnosis files, me, analytical mind is starting to feel stronger effects of hypnosis. It was all mainly due to complete relaxation, and desire to listen to all the hypnotists words as true. If you can't stop analyzing the words, maybe try turning your thoughts in favor of the hypnotist? When you can no longer find reasons to resist them, you won't resist, and they don't even come up in your mind... in theory.

What i get now, is hazy and numb feelings that come very strong within 1 minute of starting to listen, and even without any triggers. I don't repeat files over and over, just 1 file/short playlist a day should be enough. It keeps you wanting for more i guess.

But that's just the basics for hypnosis i feel like, now it's training to go deeper, and get suggestions felt in mind and body. Either way, i can be very sure that i can be hypnotized now, and it's a good start.

[skinny028]

Have a similar issue but its not so much with the suggestions as it is with the actual trance. I've done a considerable of hypnosis over the years as the hypnotist. Never really had much success as a subject. Recently decided to give the subject side another try. Have tried a few MP3s, some vids and some text based trances over yahoo. I keep running into a problem that I can't seem to work around. I can't seem to stop my mind from anticipating what is coming next. Since I have experience on the 'tist side of things I find myself constantly anyalizing their techniques and find myself predicting what's coming. All to often my mind goes to the thought "I wouldn't do it this way" or "I know this deepener" and such. Seems to prevent me from letting go. Even subtle or sneak attempts in chat don't work as I can pick up instantly on them as I have done them in the past. Is there anyway go stop or help with this issue? Any particular file that deals with it? And on the rare occasion I feel like I was able to slip into a light trance, I try to listen to the file again and again to amplify the effects however I find myself bored with it as I know everything that's coming and I just can't get through it without being so bored it irrates me. Any help would be appreciated

[Marian]

This is no oneway - it can make it impossible but it can help too.

I feel the same ... I analyse any file, his structure and the tricks while listening even in trance. It feels like sleeping and doing math at the same time (maybe it is with english files stronger because I am not a native speaker and must translate in the background). Sometimes I must giggle in trance about the ridicules stuff I hear. Then nothing happens - this is the effect of the most files, at least in 99.9%: Some nice restful relaxation, kind of power napping but no effect at all.

But if the file seem to do exactly what my conscious mind wishes anyway then the conscious mind helps the hypnosis to go straight into the subconscious, it opens all sluices without any resistance - then it is amazing powerful. The art of good hypnosis is to hit the "seem" in the "to do exactly".

The point is that the subconscious influences the conscious of course so a good tist can, if he brake it once, create a circle, a positive feedback. With this feedback hypnosis can do a lot.

[re45]

It's like insomnia basically. You know, you're trying to go to sleep and you keep thinking about going to sleep and rousing yourself in that way, so then the sun rises, and it's morning, but you still haven't made it to sleep The only way to counter the entire phenomena (of insomnia, and hypnotic suggestion) is by practicing a sort of secondary dissociation. It's not about going to sleep, or in the case of hypnosis, not thinking those thoughts. It's about having them, and then letting them pass unremarked. Treat them as completely unimportant, and they will become completely unimportant.

I discovered this when I got into meditation five years ago. The key to any kind of thought's power over you is the power you give it. If you treat the pattern of analysis-in-hypnosis as as unimportant as noticing a minor environmental detail, eventually it will be reduced to that volume, and then lost entirely as long as you don't provoke it with acknowledgement.

[Alien4420]

That's an interesting perspective, and one I'll have to play with myself.

For me, the worst analytical thoughts are the ones that start to attack the suggestions or the file. For example, if the hypnotist makes a claim that I don't believe to be true, and I think "that isn't really true," it reduces the effect of the file. Whereas if my conscious mind is quiescent in a deeper trance, or just not in a mood to second guess suggestions because I very much want to believe in them, that doesn't occur -- not during trance, anyway. Sometimes too, if I very much want to believe something, my conscious mind will create rationalizations in an attempt to make the suggestion work. But I have a very strong tendency towards intellectual honesty, so the rationalizations have to be grounded in understanding.

[CyrilMtl]

I hav a hard time going into trance,
my mind is to much analytical I think, always thinking on lots of stuff,
going from one idea to the other quickly, analyzing all the words use in the file,
every little background sound ...
I am not relaxing very well, I got the feeling of relaxing a little, less feelings of my bed under me... but still I can understand all the word said, never gone out
at the count of 5 to 1 and waken at the end of the file ;(

I try some virtual plugs file (temporary until the end of the day) and it create
some 'reaction'. Not any feeling of a real plug going into me, but some surprising pleasure wave going from the lower end of my backbone to my end, like one you are very close on the edge. Weird, it make me moan now and then all the evening.

How can I experience a deeper trance ?
I want to play with some trigger file but guess I am not going out deep enough for them to work.

[Alien4420]

The good news is that since you're experiencing those sensations you're clearly going into a trance, just not a deep one. And you don't need a deep trance for a trigger to work, or for that matter most of the things these files do. Deep trances are necessary for hallucination. You could start by listening to Bubble Induction for a while. As you gain more experience with the deep trances that that file induces and how to get there you'll find that you can transfer the trancing skill to other files.

[CyrilMtl]

Bubble induction ? the Lutz file ?rnI am kind of afraid of it, it seems very strong, and there is a trigger in it I think, don't like trying stuff with mystery trigger in it when I don't know what it will make me do.rn

[Endo]

Bubble's pretty chill, honestly. The trigger's just to take you back down to a suggestible state quickly. It's not going to do anything that's not specified in the description.

[Alien4420]

What Endo said. There's no hidden payload. It just puts you in a deep trance and gives you a trigger that will take you there. Of course that would give someone who knows the trigger power over you. Probably not a problem but if you're concerned you could edit the file in Audacity to remove the trigger and just listen to it as a straightforward induction. It's really a lesson in how to go into deep trance and as you become proficient at it you'll find that you can transfer your ability to go into deep trance to other files. At some point, you'll likely find you don't even need inductions anymore, you'll just pop into trance when you want to.

[CyrilMtl]

I think I will try that
Can i insert later my own trigger instead of Lutz's one ? My voice will not disturbs the flow of the file ?

Can you train yourself to pop under directly and listen at file without induction ? That seems interesting. How do you wake up if there is no wake up part at the end ? Don't want to be a drooling zombie in my bedroom :)

C.

[hypotoad]

ooo thats one im qualified to answer

if there is no awaken-er you will either go to sleep or your mind will eventually get bored from receiving no new information and snap you out on its own. from what ive read falling asleep is fairly uncommon


in my personal experience after a few minutes of receiving no input my mind will lightly wake up and start questioning whether the file is over or not. If it concludes the file is over I then make the personal decision to push the fact that its over out of my mind just lay in absolute relaxation for a while or i will wake myself up.