If so many people have changed their sexual orientation...

[thomas432]

Then how come there's no shown cases of conversion therapy being successful? Even if the methods used are different, why isn't using hypnosis widely known? I want to use one of those files but I'm skeptical, even though I've had a few benefits from using hypnosis in the past.

Same with the fem/masculinization files. Some say you can use them to make your mental image align with your physical one, or vice versa, if youre transgender. Why isn't hypnosis more known for that?

[JackDrago]

The basic problem with gay conversion therapy is the subject choice. Everybody naturally falls somewhere on the Kinsey scale between 0 - total heterosexuality and 6 - total homosexuality... folks in the range 1-5 have some degree of choice while 0s and 6s don't. the folks targeted by gay conversion therapy are usually obvious homosexuals in very religious families... these are typically Kinsey 6 types who have little or no choice in their attraction or (given the environment) they woulda simply chosen to be straight. Also, these subjects tend to be relatively unwilling and doing it to please others or avoid consequences. Not exactly the most conductive situation for lasting change.

The folks who do a gay conversion hypnosis like my Shattered Heterosexuality system are typically Kinsey 1-2 guys who have a significant desire to turn gay already. These are subjects who do have some degree of choice and a desire. Still doesn't work on everyone: out of 200 subjects I have seen 2 failures, one from incompatibility with prior hypnosis, one because the guy was a true Kinsey 0 doing it on a dare who didn't really want to change.

As for transgender hypnosis, it's a commonplace. WMM is chock full of sissy hypno, and more serious m2f and f2m sessions happen in hypnotherapist offices all the time. There's less around for f2m, but my Masculine Conditioning system has been used with success by several subjects who were assigned female at birth to turn male; and by several ex-trans guys trying to escape sissification hypno, albeit with mixed results.

[larrn]

I have tried your sharrered heterosexuality along with others and have had no success to turn gay. Any suggestions you mday have for me.
Thank you

[survivor99]

In my experience that kind of radical change comes from the danger and arousal of the change. Like Drago said, some part of you has to want it. I almost fucked up my life listening to sissy files that I thought of as forbidden fruit. Before that it was a fetish but when I listened to a hardcore file it actually made me question my identity where as beforehand it was just a fantasy. I would've definitely became transgender if I kept listening. This happened after only 2 days of listening.

On the other hand I tried listening to Hetero Conversion to fix my attraction to women that was damaged but it didn't work very well because the file bored me, even though I used it at least 3 times a day (sometimes as much as 7!) and listened for 2 months. It did make me more turned off by guys though.

So that's my experience and I hope it provided insight into your question.

[thomas432]

The basic problem with gay conversion therapy is the subject choice. Everybody naturally falls somewhere on the Kinsey scale between 0 - total heterosexuality and 6 - total homosexuality... folks in the range 1-5 have some degree of choice while 0s and 6s don't. the folks targeted by gay conversion therapy are usually obvious homosexuals in very religious families... these are typically Kinsey 6 types who have little or no choice in their attraction or (given the environment) they woulda simply chosen to be straight. Also, these subjects tend to be relatively unwilling and doing it to please others or avoid consequences. Not exactly the most conductive situation for lasting change.

The folks who do a gay conversion hypnosis like my Shattered Heterosexuality system are typically Kinsey 1-2 guys who have a significant desire to turn gay already. These are subjects who do have some degree of choice and a desire. Still doesn't work on everyone: out of 200 subjects I have seen 2 failures, one from incompatibility with prior hypnosis, one because the guy was a true Kinsey 0 doing it on a dare who didn't really want to change.

As for transgender hypnosis, it's a commonplace. WMM is chock full of sissy hypno, and more serious m2f and f2m sessions happen in hypnotherapist offices all the time. There's less around for f2m, but my Masculine Conditioning system has been used with success by several subjects who were assigned female at birth to turn male; and by several ex-trans guys trying to escape sissification hypno, albeit with mixed results.

What do you mean by

the folks targeted by gay conversion therapy are usually obvious homosexuals in very religious families... these are typically Kinsey 6 types who have little or no choice in their attraction or (given the environment)they woulda simply chosen to be straight.

What do you mean by the last part of that sentence, "given the environment"?

Also, would a Kinsey 0 or 6 still be able to change if they were still willing? Curious. Obviously those individuals are exclusively attracted one gender, but like, if other willing people could do it, why couldn't they?

I've had some effects from a bisexuality subliminal but I still have my doubts. Things like gender identity and sexuality seem to be things that are physically hardwired and it just seems far fetched for one to be able to change that, even if I myself have had effects. I still have some fear that I'm just fooling myself, but that's maybe that's normal for a skeptic that's just starting out. How do you know that people aren't making those claims just for attention?

As far as gender identity hypnosis, I am FTM transgender (a bit flexible though) I'm assuming I would be able to become cis with hypnosis? Again, gender identity seems to be biological so I'm not sure how hypnosis would work for it truly.

[JackDrago]

What do you mean by the last part of the sentence "...given the environment"

I grew up in a gay friendly household... Came out at 15 and was instantly and immediately met with total acceptance and encouragement. I had literally zero incentive to be anything other than what I was. I consider myself lucky to have grown up in such a circumstance, but that's not everyone's situation. The typical gay conversion therapy subject grows up in a highly religious household (typically fundamentalist Christian, though it happens to Muslims and Orthodox Jews as well) where homosexuality is regarded as a grave sin and very much not allowed.

In an environment like mine, a person whose native sexuality was a Kinsey 4 might well come out as bisexual young and be accepted. In an environment like the above, such a person would have a strong incentive to focus on the heterosexual desires and ignore the homosexual ones and would likely never admit that they had homosexual desires at all. This is what the Christians mean my the "you chose to be gay" argument: a great many people in the middle of the Kinsey scale actually do choose to be straight and this muddles the fact that the people anchoring the far ends of the scale don't really get much/any choice in the matter.

Also, would a Kinsey 0 or 6 still be able to change if they were still willing? Curious. Obviously those individuals are exclusively attracted one gender, but like, if other willing people could do it, why couldn't they?

This goes back to how Kinsey defined his scale because the answer is "no, by definition" anyone who has the desire to change their sexual orientation is disqualified by the definition of a Kinsey 0 or 6 which excludes anyone who has had so much as a single fantasy about their non-preferred gender. If you have ever had a gay fantasy, then you are not a Kinsey 0, if you have ever had a straight fantasy then you are not a Kinsey 6.

As for the why of it; that gets us into the weeds of ecology... Any time you have a lasting change through hypnosis you have a set of factors that are shaping that change and making it more or less tenable as a long term outcome. Three common ecological factors you hear about in 12 step programs are Honesty, Openmindedness and Willingness. [list=][*]If you're not honest enough to admit your desires, you will never seek help in attaining them
[*]If you're not willing to change for some reason, then you will try to change but fail
[*]If you're not openminded enough to consider a proposed solution, then you will reject a solution that might otherwise be effective [/list]
These are, of course, only a small sampling of the kind of things that can interfere in a change process... A highly religious person who has the deep seeded belief that homosexuality is sinful might well need to reframe their religious beliefs to accommodate a change in sexual orientation (possible if you convert to a gay friendly denomination like Reform Judiaism, Episcopal or MCC Christianity, etc), but be unwilling to do so because they believe that their denomination's interpretation of the Bible is the only true one and converting to another denomination would send them to hell. Such a person is going to have a hard time with making gay conversion stick unless they do the religious reframing that they are unwilling to do.

Likewise, a gay agnostic trying to change through conversion therapy might well find that their adoption of an anti-gay brand of Christianity is unecological to the extent that though they might well begin to believe in Christianity writ large, they find the lack of acceptance unwelcoming and defect to a less anti-gay denomination, thereby defeating the straight conversion aspect of the conversion therapy and making them into a gay christian rather than a straight one.

Another classic ecology problem is lack of belief in the method used. Suppose the conversion therapy client instead of being an agnostic is a hardcore atheist instead... in that case the client simply fails to be convinced to convert to Christianity entirely because they already have a network of ideas completely debunking that belief system; and since religious conversion is the method used the effect on sexual orientation is nil even though the client is quite desperate to be straight. Such a client might well successfully turn though hypnosis that didn't use an explicitly religious mechanism. A similar ecology problem faces the folks trying to change through hypnosis when they are skeptical / disbelieving in hypnosis itself.

How do you know that people aren't making those claims just for attention?

because I have had gay sex with several former heterosexuals converted by my files who had never had gay sex before. I also know several transpeople who had no clue they were trans before hypnosis who now live in their chosen gender rather than the one they were assigned at birth.

As far as gender identity hypnosis, I am FTM transgender (a bit flexible though) I'm assuming I would be able to become cis with hypnosis? Again, gender identity seems to be biological so I'm not sure how hypnosis would work for it truly.

It would depend on how much flexibility you have and what the particular set of beliefs and ecology problems you have are.

Dr Kinsey didn't work as much on trans issues as sexual orientation, but the notion of a scale might be useful here. Consider the possibility that gender identity, like sexual orientation, is a scale that runs from 0 to 6 with 0 being totally cisgendered and 6 being totally transgendered. On such a scale I am the equivalent of a 2: I had some vague unhappiness about my gender, crossdressed a few times, had vague notions about getting neutered someday; but never really had the willingness to transition to female. I made the decision to hypnotize myself into being a gender secure masculine male and it worked for me -- I now completely lack ALL desire to be anything other than male, and want the most hypermasculine gender expression possible. However, given that I owe the hair on my chest and over an inch of dick to hypnosis and am a hypnotist, I have 100% confidence that hypnosis works for me... I am literally the ideal subject for such a transformation: more cis than trans, a "true believer" ecology when it comes to hypnosis, and a strong desire to change.

A hypnosis skeptic who was a "trans 5" (almost completely transgendered) might have a much more difficult time in erasing trans desires than someone like me who was merely a bit dissatisfied with their birth gender.

I still have some fear that I'm just fooling myself, but that's maybe that's normal for a skeptic that's just starting out.

There's your trouble. As long as you remain stuck in skepticism about hypnosis itself, any hypnotic solution is doomed to fail. Hypno is literally all in your head and your headspace matters a lot to whether you succeed or fail. If you wish to solve your problem hypnotically, I strongly suggest that you pick some harmless and unrelated hypnosis that will convince you that hypnosis does, in fact, work for you. Having a hands-free orgasm from hypnosis, or a blackout, or getting some minor body change (in my case chest hair was the convincer) will diffuse your skepticism about hypnosis itself and let you achieve results with other hypno from now on.

[JackDrago]

larrn wrote: I have tried your sharrered heterosexuality along with others and have had no success to turn gay. Any suggestions you mday have for me.
Thank you

This would depend on what's getting in the way of the change. PM me and we can work through your ecology. Clearly you have some willingness to change your orientation, so there's some kind of ecology problem in the way.

[Casey]

The main issue with conversion therapy in the GLBT community is....
That is is often family, parents, guardians, or foster parents, or foster care systems that were taking a child, or a teenager, and forcing them against their will to convert their sexuality or sexual identity in something they are not.. Which has caused them.. to enter a severe depression and in many cases was the last push of suicide. It is good for those who want it.. but never should be forced on someone who does not want it.. or does not have a fetish of being forced or pushed in this area....

[thomas432]

What do you mean by the last part of the sentence "...given the environment"

I grew up in a gay friendly household... Came out at 15 and was instantly and immediately met with total acceptance and encouragement. I had literally zero incentive to be anything other than what I was. I consider myself lucky to have grown up in such a circumstance, but that's not everyone's situation. The typical gay conversion therapy subject grows up in a highly religious household (typically fundamentalist Christian, though it happens to Muslims and Orthodox Jews as well) where homosexuality is regarded as a grave sin and very much not allowed.

In an environment like mine, a person whose native sexuality was a Kinsey 4 might well come out as bisexual young and be accepted. In an environment like the above, such a person would have a strong incentive to focus on the heterosexual desires and ignore the homosexual ones and would likely never admit that they had homosexual desires at all. This is what the Christians mean my the "you chose to be gay" argument: a great many people in the middle of the Kinsey scale actually do choose to be straight and this muddles the fact that the people anchoring the far ends of the scale don't really get much/any choice in the matter.

Also, would a Kinsey 0 or 6 still be able to change if they were still willing? Curious. Obviously those individuals are exclusively attracted one gender, but like, if other willing people could do it, why couldn't they?

This goes back to how Kinsey defined his scale because the answer is "no, by definition" anyone who has the desire to change their sexual orientation is disqualified by the definition of a Kinsey 0 or 6 which excludes anyone who has had so much as a single fantasy about their non-preferred gender. If you have ever had a gay fantasy, then you are not a Kinsey 0, if you have ever had a straight fantasy then you are not a Kinsey 6.

As for the why of it; that gets us into the weeds of ecology... Any time you have a lasting change through hypnosis you have a set of factors that are shaping that change and making it more or less tenable as a long term outcome. Three common ecological factors you hear about in 12 step programs are Honesty, Openmindedness and Willingness. [list=][*]If you're not honest enough to admit your desires, you will never seek help in attaining them
[*]If you're not willing to change for some reason, then you will try to change but fail
[*]If you're not openminded enough to consider a proposed solution, then you will reject a solution that might otherwise be effective [/list]
These are, of course, only a small sampling of the kind of things that can interfere in a change process... A highly religious person who has the deep seeded belief that homosexuality is sinful might well need to reframe their religious beliefs to accommodate a change in sexual orientation (possible if you convert to a gay friendly denomination like Reform Judiaism, Episcopal or MCC Christianity, etc), but be unwilling to do so because they believe that their denomination's interpretation of the Bible is the only true one and converting to another denomination would send them to hell. Such a person is going to have a hard time with making gay conversion stick unless they do the religious reframing that they are unwilling to do.

Likewise, a gay agnostic trying to change through conversion therapy might well find that their adoption of an anti-gay brand of Christianity is unecological to the extent that though they might well begin to believe in Christianity writ large, they find the lack of acceptance unwelcoming and defect to a less anti-gay denomination, thereby defeating the straight conversion aspect of the conversion therapy and making them into a gay christian rather than a straight one.

Another classic ecology problem is lack of belief in the method used. Suppose the conversion therapy client instead of being an agnostic is a hardcore atheist instead... in that case the client simply fails to be convinced to convert to Christianity entirely because they already have a network of ideas completely debunking that belief system; and since religious conversion is the method used the effect on sexual orientation is nil even though the client is quite desperate to be straight. Such a client might well successfully turn though hypnosis that didn't use an explicitly religious mechanism. A similar ecology problem faces the folks trying to change through hypnosis when they are skeptical / disbelieving in hypnosis itself.

How do you know that people aren't making those claims just for attention?

because I have had gay sex with several former heterosexuals converted by my files who had never had gay sex before. I also know several transpeople who had no clue they were trans before hypnosis who now live in their chosen gender rather than the one they were assigned at birth.

As far as gender identity hypnosis, I am FTM transgender (a bit flexible though) I'm assuming I would be able to become cis with hypnosis? Again, gender identity seems to be biological so I'm not sure how hypnosis would work for it truly.

It would depend on how much flexibility you have and what the particular set of beliefs and ecology problems you have are.

Dr Kinsey didn't work as much on trans issues as sexual orientation, but the notion of a scale might be useful here. Consider the possibility that gender identity, like sexual orientation, is a scale that runs from 0 to 6 with 0 being totally cisgendered and 6 being totally transgendered. On such a scale I am the equivalent of a 2: I had some vague unhappiness about my gender, crossdressed a few times, had vague notions about getting neutered someday; but never really had the willingness to transition to female. I made the decision to hypnotize myself into being a gender secure masculine male and it worked for me -- I now completely lack ALL desire to be anything other than male, and want the most hypermasculine gender expression possible. However, given that I owe the hair on my chest and over an inch of dick to hypnosis and am a hypnotist, I have 100% confidence that hypnosis works for me... I am literally the ideal subject for such a transformation: more cis than trans, a "true believer" ecology when it comes to hypnosis, and a strong desire to change.

A hypnosis skeptic who was a "trans 5" (almost completely transgendered) might have a much more difficult time in erasing trans desires than someone like me who was merely a bit dissatisfied with their birth gender.

I still have some fear that I'm just fooling myself, but that's maybe that's normal for a skeptic that's just starting out.

There's your trouble. As long as you remain stuck in skepticism about hypnosis itself, any hypnotic solution is doomed to fail. Hypno is literally all in your head and your headspace matters a lot to whether you succeed or fail. If you wish to solve your problem hypnotically, I strongly suggest that you pick some harmless and unrelated hypnosis that will convince you that hypnosis does, in fact, work for you. Having a hands-free orgasm from hypnosis, or a blackout, or getting some minor body change (in my case chest hair was the convincer) will diffuse your skepticism about hypnosis itself and let you achieve results with other hypno from now on.

I'll respond to all that later in more detail. But saying something is true on the Internet won't necessarily convince a skeptic, unless you can prove that the person was mostly hetero before and now enjoys gay sex. Not saying I don't believe you but the evidence is anecdotal. You're right though, I'll have to start out with something unrelated that would convince me. So you were a skeptic when you did the chest hair hypnosis?

Also couldn't a Kinsey 0 or 6 still want to change just because it's easier in society to be straight?

Also for the transgender thing, I'm highly considering trying to become cis with hypnosis because it would make my life easier. A lot of trans people would have an aversion to doing that, but I feel my gender is only a part of me, I would be fine with changing it if I still felt like me and had my continuity of self. Even becoming just nonbinary and not having to transition anymore, I would be content with. Have you heard of any trans people who have become more cis with hypnosis?

Also what type of feminization files for this purpose would you suggest? If you know of any

[JackDrago]

I don't know about any feminization files geared to females or transmen... even for guys there's basically only Masculine Conditioning for someone going femme to masc.

[thomas432]

I don't know about any feminization files geared to females or transmen... even for guys there's basically only Masculine Conditioning for someone going femme to masc.

Hey,

did some hypnosis finally last night and finally entered trance, listened to feminization files for over an hour. I honestly feel more feminine today than usual. I think my skepticism was just due to inexperience. Plus, if people were just making claims for attention, it wouldn't be very effective, as there's tons of claims like that on this site. Anyway thanks for your replies

[JackDrago]

You are most welcome. Glad to see you building some comfort with it

[thomas432]

You are most welcome. Glad to see you building some comfort with it

One thing that has occurred to me lately is the question of whether any changes brought through hypnosis would be unnatural and less authentic than the self I would have had before hypnosis. But then again, hypnosis is a natural process as well...

[JackDrago]

Authentic.... hmmmn, isn't your experience authentic for you by definition?

[thomas432]

You are most welcome. Glad to see you building some comfort with it

I have been doing hypnosis semi often for the past couple of months and what I've learned about it is that you do have to really want it. I wanted to change initially just because I was depressed and thought my life would be easier for becoming cis. Which is true but that's not enough for me... cause that reason only, would be changing yourself for other people which I have an issue with...now I'm just doing it for me so I can be fully happy in my own body. I would still have height, hand, and hip dysphoria if I transitioned.