WarpMyMind

I have a teenage son who is interested into bodybuilding. Would it be safe to allow him to use hypnosis, such as MNFriendly Guy's Muscle Pig series, the Muscle Growth file on hypno-files or even Curse Muscle Bound?

Probably not, both medically and ethically speaking. Hypnosis can seriously screw up a person if you are not careful. Hypnosis on adolescents probably is not advisable since their brain chemistry is often imbalanced enough as is. Even though they may appear to be average on the surface, they may have something else going on inside which can cause effects to sort of skew in unwanted directions. Ethically, putting any minor under trance, for any reason could be seen as being rather dubious behavior. Even if the purpose of the trance is not anything sexual or forced, by being put into trance, the trancee still ends up being put into a state of compliance, and will probably find themselves easier to be put into trance by other things, or more willing to perform secondary behaviors. Then again, if the teen has authority issues, they may not even be able to accept the words of the tist.

If your teen is interested in body building, no hypnosis is needed, just let them do their thing and the act itself should be enough to get results. Working out can be a rather addictive activity in itself, combined with the natural hormones of aging, and the confidence which comes from it, not much else is needed. These files, at least as I understand them, are aimed more at adults who may not be as motivated as they would like to be. Hypnosis usually works on perceptions, so even those files which are aimed at speeding up muscle growth may only be perceived growth, and not actual, so may not help on that end. As these files contain other aspects which might not be wanted, like hair loss, that too is more reason not to use them.

User517 wrote:Probably not, both medically and ethically speaking. Hypnosis can seriously screw up a person if you are not careful. Hypnosis on adolescents probably is not advisable since their brain chemistry is often imbalanced enough as is. Even though they may appear to be average on the surface, they may have something else going on inside which can cause effects to sort of skew in unwanted directions. Ethically, putting any minor under trance, for any reason could be seen as being rather dubious behavior. Even if the purpose of the trance is not anything sexual or forced, by being put into trance, the trancee still ends up being put into a state of compliance, and will probably find themselves easier to be put into trance by other things, or more willing to perform secondary behaviors. Then again, if the teen has authority issues, they may not even be able to accept the words of the tist.

If your teen is interested in body building, no hypnosis is needed, just let them do their thing and the act itself should be enough to get results. Working out can be a rather addictive activity in itself, combined with the natural hormones of aging, and the confidence which comes from it, not much else is needed. These files, at least as I understand them, are aimed more at adults who may not be as motivated as they would like to be. Hypnosis usually works on perceptions, so even those files which are aimed at speeding up muscle growth may only be perceived growth, and not actual, so may not help on that end. As these files contain other aspects which might not be wanted, like hair loss, that too is more reason not to use them.

There are too many things in this entire post that are completely innacurate,too many to point out each individual one.

Hypnosis is fine for teenagers - even healthy - Milton Ericson has many instances where he put children under ( search the "sleeping arm" tales, i think its called).

Though i dont agree with most of the inacturate things said above the one thing i think overall is its most probably not a good idea.This is coming from the body building side not the hypnosis side.

The earliest age you should start body building is 16 - but many would advise older.The body has not fully grown and if you start building too much muscle at a fast rate it can seriously alter the body growth and development - especially the joints,giving some problems in later life.

The only type of body building done in the teenage years should be low impact ( lots of reps with small weights.).Heavy weights with few reps should not be done until the body is fully developed ( ie 21 and over).

I suggest seeking a fitness trainer or gym before you allow him to start anything.

It's probably not the best idea, hypnosis can not do anything to short cut a process like getting in shape or bodybuilding. It can do a lot of things, nudge a desire into place/in line, help with ignoring discomfort/finding pleasure, help make doing something seem like it took more or less time (i.e. a workout seeming like it went by fast or not being able to remember it at all), and all sorts of other things... but most of it isn't really a good idea since he may wind up hurting himself intentionally (oooh that feels good when it tears like that isn't a good thing;), neither is forgetting how not to hurt yourself or what your limits are).

Hypnosis is great for helping to nudge a desire into place... but from the sounds of it, he already has the desire to get into body building and just needs the means to do it.

Your best bet is to get him a gym membership and pay a trainer. I joined LA-Fitness a while back and pay something like 25-30$/month (there was a special and I had to put down like 300-400$ up front so it wasn't the usual 40-50$ish and $0 down or whatever it is) and the trainers charge 40$/session going 2x a week and 50/session going 1x a week, goes down the more times a week you go. Something along those lines is your best bet for him, going with a trainer is a good idea though... it will give him a chance to learn how to do things properly without hurting himself and also give him the opportunity to push himself further than he would be able to on his own. Go with a trainer 1-2x a week and just come in to work out a few more times a week and he will do well.

whatthe75 wrote:

I was not able to find the reference suggested, and am only slightly familiar with Erickson's work, I can understand where you're coming from, but obviously disagree as far as it relates to the intents and purposes here.

What is being sought is not therapy, or a means of sorting out and correcting behavior, but rather instilling or strengthening new behaviors. There is a difference. In one instance, you are working with the patient toward making sense of the impulses within their mind, and trying to redirect those impulses. Or to make it more clear, something which is primarily diagnostic in nature. In the other, you are working from your own perception of how things should be arranged, and are attempting to make that arrangement match. Or to make it more clear, something which is more corrective in nature.

There is also a rather significant difference between the methods which might be used by a trained and experienced hypnotist which are suited specifically for use with children, and the methods which are used by amateurs, which is designed for use with adults. Both require different language and different approaches.

The key here is to remember that like their bodies, the minds of children are in what can be considered as a constant state of shock. They are constantly trying to adapt to both their inside and outside environment. In this state, trying to go in and force a change, without taking the time to understand the thought processes of the patient, could become rather harmful since one value might be linked to several other values without any logical connection. It is only when people mature that their mind starts to normalize, and values begin to separate from each other. The same framework of values and meanings which exists in the adult mind often is not compete until after adolescence. Some of this is learned, some of this is just chemical. When working with any person which might be mentally unstable you often have to adjust your approach and methods specifically around that persons instabilities. A file designed for generic use just simply may not be appropriate.

As far as ethically speaking, this is a largely subjective statement based on the belief that people should be allowed to be who they want to be, not who others tell them they should be. You are certainly welcome to your own opinions on this matter.

User517 wrote:

whatthe75 wrote:

There is also a rather significant difference between the methods which might be used by a trained and experienced hypnotist which are suited specifically for use with children, and the methods which are used by amateurs, which is designed for use with adults. Both require different language and different approaches. .

If your referring to most of the hypnotists on here as "amateurs",having a piece of paper and a two or three week course under your belt does not mean you know more than anyone else.Most of the very big names in hypnosis and ones that have started their own succesfull fileds have no qualifications or training whatsoever.Different language and different approaches should be used for each individual,it doesn't just count for difference between adults and children.

User517 wrote:The key here is to remember that like their bodies, the minds of children are in what can be considered as a constant state of shock. They are constantly trying to adapt to both their inside and outside environment.,.

so do adults - its just not as obvious.Children are not in a constant state of shock,they are in a state of learning and wonder.

User517 wrote: In this state, trying to go in and force a change,.

You cant force a change.

User517 wrote: without taking the time to understand the thought processes of the patient, could become rather harmful since one value might be linked to several other values without any logical connection.,.

Again,exactly the same for all adults.

User517 wrote: It is only when people mature that their mind starts to normalize, and values begin to separate from each other. The same framework of values and meanings which exists in the adult mind often is not compete until after adolescence. ,.

The mind is continually busy and learning,it only seems like it stops or slows down as we become adults because we have taken in a lot.The human brain never stops learning.

User517 wrote:Some of this is learned, some of this is just chemical. When working with any person which might be mentally unstable you often have to adjust your approach and methods specifically around that persons instabilities. A file designed for generic use just simply may not be appropriate. ,.

Again same for all the adults.I hope your not referring to mentally unstable as meaning all children.

User517 wrote:

whatthe75 wrote:

There is also a rather significant difference between the methods which might be used by a trained and experienced hypnotist which are suited specifically for use with children, and the methods which are used by amateurs, which is designed for use with adults. Both require different language and different approaches. .

If your referring to most of the hypnotists on here as "amateurs",having a piece of paper and a two or three week course under your belt does not mean you know more than anyone else.Most of the very big names in hypnosis and ones that have started their own succesfull fileds have no qualifications or training whatsoever.Different language and different approaches should be used for each individual,it doesn't just count for difference between adults and children.

User517 wrote:The key here is to remember that like their bodies, the minds of children are in what can be considered as a constant state of shock. They are constantly trying to adapt to both their inside and outside environment.,.

so do adults - its just not as obvious.Children are not in a constant state of shock,they are in a state of learning and wonder.

User517 wrote: In this state, trying to go in and force a change,.

You cant force a change.

User517 wrote: without taking the time to understand the thought processes of the patient, could become rather harmful since one value might be linked to several other values without any logical connection.,.

Again,exactly the same for all adults.

User517 wrote: It is only when people mature that their mind starts to normalize, and values begin to separate from each other. The same framework of values and meanings which exists in the adult mind often is not compete until after adolescence. ,.

The mind is continually busy and learning,it only seems like it stops or slows down as we become adults because we have taken in a lot.The human brain never stops learning.

User517 wrote:Some of this is learned, some of this is just chemical. When working with any person which might be mentally unstable you often have to adjust your approach and methods specifically around that persons instabilities. A file designed for generic use just simply may not be appropriate. ,.

Again same for all the adults.I hope your not referring to mentally unstable as meaning all children.

whatthe75 wrote:
If your referring to most of the hypnotists on here as "amateurs",having a piece of paper and a two or three week course under your belt does not mean you know more than anyone else.Most of the very big names in hypnosis and ones that have started their own succesfull fileds have no qualifications or training whatsoever.Different language and different approaches should be used for each individual,it doesn't just count for difference between adults and children.

Never said anything about papers. Training doesn't always have to come from a teacher, but most who do hypnotism have atleast attempted to do some homework on the matter. I agree, experience and doing is often much more important. Never quantified anything about the people on this site since there is a mix of both experienced and inexperienced. However, for all intents and purposes, many on this site are technically "amateurs" since they are not making a living from being being a hypnotist, or are otherwise maintaining attempting "professional" service. This is not to speak ill of anyone, but rather remind that hypnotism is something which is always being practiced, and by nature of that practice, mistakes do happen. My response was directed primarily toward your argument of Erickson's work with children, as opposed to the work of those on an adult site. No other conclusions were described, and we are, for the most part in agreement on those points reached, however they do not really relate to my response.

whatthe75 wrote:
so do adults - its just not as obvious.Children are not in a constant state of shock,they are in a state of learning and wonder.

Again, we are in agreement, but this really depends how one defines shock. The point I was making is that the minds of children are often more susceptible to accepting greater changes than adults because of this state.

whatthe75 wrote:
You cant force a change.

Technically, you are correct, although suggestions which insist upon total submission, and obedience come close enough. But again, you miss the point completely.

whatthe75 wrote:
Again,exactly the same for all adults.

Which is exactly why care should always be taken when using things which are not designed for the user, or at the very least, someone of a similar demographic/philosophy. Unless you identified as a woman, you would not listen to a file designed for women to help boost confidence because the effect of listening to that file, while not being in the targeted audience could have unwanted effects. Same deal here.

whatthe75 wrote:
Again same for all the adults.

Yes, but to a lesser extent. Not talking about merely learning here, but instead how much of what we learn becomes part of who we are. Talking about working with schema and concepts here, not just knowledge. Children just tend to be much more able to change their views and understanding of things than adults. This is why the teaching of language, high level science and maths at a younger age is so important, adults just have more difficulty adopting these concepts into their being. Same goes for philosophies. Dried clay is just not as malleable as moist clay, this is not saying that the dried clay cannot become rehydrated and reshaped, just that it often takes more effort.

whatthe75 wrote:
I hope your not referring to mentally unstable as meaning all children.

Obviously not. Was drawing a link between working with mentally unstable adults being similar to working with children, supporting the stance that it often requires a special approach designed specifically for that individual. Nothing else.

mrannoying777 wrote:I have a teenage son who is interested into bodybuilding. Would it be safe to allow him to use hypnosis, such as MNFriendly Guy's Muscle Pig series, the Muscle Growth file on hypno-files or even Curse Muscle Bound?

I have been using Paul Mc Kenna’s hypnosis programs for years without any adverse effects as well as learning and practicing Neuro-linguistic programming (NLP) Life Techniques with Pauls Positivity CD system. Along with this I have read many of both Paul’s and Richard Bandler’s books on NLP and hypnosis.

I am also an undergraduate psychology student at the University of Central Lancashire here in the UK and studying for my Bachelor of Science degree.

Why do you think your son needs to be hynotized in order to take an intererest in an activity or in anything?

I am inclined to agree with FloridaPuppy. And the only one it seems to have stuck to the topic in answer to the original question and to have given good and sound advice.

Nappyboy wrote:
And the only one it seems to have stuck to the topic in answer to the original question and to have given good and sound advice.

Sorry my fault - wanted to clarify some things with user517 which he has done.Thanks User517 i now understand what you mean.

Nappyboy wrote:

Why do you think your son needs to be hynotized in order to take an intererest in an activity or in anything? .

A very good question.