Time and space

[Mallic]

Time is one of the most, if not the most, strangest thing in the history (excuse the pun) of the universe. Stranger still is cause and effect. Well, to be fair, it isn't that the concept of "if you do thingA, thingB will do something" that is so strange. Its the mindboggling fact that if you hadn't done something, everything would be different.

Example: Let suppose that someone had acidentally set off a smoke alarm during the Twin Tower attacks. The incident would not of been the sickening tradgety that it was. Shocking - perhaps - But certainly not that huge of a drama.

Space. As Douglas Adams expertally points out in HHGG, the human mind is not supposed to understand the humongous distances of space. As he also says, infinity (except in the context of time) isn't all that great. As he says

"Looking into the night sky shows you infinity. Distance incomprehensible, therefore meaningless"

Meaningless is the key word here. "You roll a natural twenty" Some will go "huh?" at this, some will know that this is a good sign.

"We cannot understand what we cannot comprehend"

I don't agree with this, to tell the truth. The phrase should be modifyed to

"We cannot understand what we have not experianced"

The cavemen did not understand why food kept them alive. But they understood the effects. I don't know how a gun works, But I know that you should keep out of their way.

[gurlbidesign]

I don't know about "understand" but I do know I don't need a truck to hit me to know I wouldn't like it.

[goldragon_70]

What if you went back in time and became your own father, or wound up in a Total Perspective Vortex? 8O

[EMG]

No problem at all since I'm the center of the universe ;) (Ok, so I stole that attitude from Zaphod, but it worked for him)

What if you went back in time and became your own father, or wound up in a Total Perspective Vortex? 8O

[Mallic]

But you have to reallize what I didn't.

[goldragon_70]

No problem at all since I'm the center of the universe ;) (Ok, so I stole that attitude from Zaphod, but it worked for him)

What if you went back in time and became your own father, or wound up in a Total Perspective Vortex? 8O

Don't forget that, by a time trave mix up, Zaphod the first's father was Zaphod, the second and his father Zaphod the third, and his father Zaphod the fourth, but that's were it starts. :p

By the way EGM that's were I got the questions from.

Edit: Whooops!! Sorry about that EMG

[Mallic]

And also a time warp was responsible for you pressing the "G" before the "M" key.

[megamanrulesall]

As I said in the Magic post, Jane Roberts & her Seth speaks stuff is just mind blowing. This spirit explains that Tme is an illusion that we make because of how we percieve how we are in this physical world. He also explains that time isn't linear as our minds think, but hapening at the same time. He also explains on how we don't just have one conciousness, but many at the same time doing their own things in thier own realities. He taks about a lot of other subjects. Religion, God, Jesus & the Crusifixion & how Jesus was actually a very skilled Psychic & how that some of his messages in some of the tales, were misunderstood & misinterrpreted. Almost every "Important" topic is covered by this spirit. I could go on & on, but I won't. Just try & find the Seth Speaks stuff. It will really make you think a bit differently about the entire world & other stuff.

http://rapidshare.de/files/8579719/Seth_Speaks_1_2.zip.html

[SubmissMe]

Amazing, I slated you mallic for starting the magic topic and now you start a very debatable topic. I take it all back.

As for cause and effect, I stand with Ayer and Hume on this one and adopt Hume's view on causality. We can never know necessary truths.

As for time, what is time but a man made concept to moniter the decay of the physical?

[Mallic]

Very nice last point Submiss. I myself do not view time as a simple decay of the phyiscal. I don't think mankind is smart enough to do this. I am surpised we even notice time at all. I don't even remember typing this response. Without anything interesting to remember we don't remember anything at all. You remember a thunderstorm. You don't remember falling asleep. Time is a mesure of our consetration. You notice how sometimes a mundane task seems to take a minute, othertimes seems to take hours.

Mallic (Drunken ramblings are our specialty)

[SubmissMe]

Interesting. Very interesting.

I've never heard that one before and it connects well. However I remember a lot of boring things that I don't need to remember. Its interesting to think as to how memory works and how we remember the same thing differently. If we make a lie and familiarize with it, it becoms real.

[nuit09]

Time is a consequence of awareness of differences or the converse; time is the cause. without time there could be no self. comparisons could not be made. there would be no end of one thing and begining of another all would be the same, indivisible and unsensate. awareness in material existance requires time. because to be aware is to note differences. even the statement "I am." infers or implies differences. I, not I. Exists(am); does not exist (am not). self and other. we term difference in quality in dualistic terms like good and evil. When we judge a thing to be of lesser quality we describe it as bad (or evil.) in my view time is coidentical to evil. but without it we could not differentiate between self and not self. we could not be aware. if everything shared equal qualities. there is no way to set a boundary between things. no numbers could exist. 1 would be too many.

[xanthk]

A theory I and a friend have worked on - feel free to comment:

The universe, rather than existing in the 4 dimensions we currently know, would instead use 9, split into three tri-dimensional objects.

The first would be the physical: length, width, and depth. These, as always, we use to give an object physical form. Now, to do anything with this object, we need a way to measure change.

And so we come to our second tri-dimensional object: the temporal, or time. Working from this perspective, imagine time to be something like a lone box. At one end is time past, at the other, future. the other the other directions along the box allow for different variations of events that could have happened at any given time. So an object in this space could be an event. To recap an earlier example, the trade center attack. That event took a set period of time, so we can plot it's length. We'll put the center of our object at what we perceive as reality, the events we know to have happened. Close to center of the object, events would change only marginally from how we remember them, the plane hit a different window, or a different floor. Further out, things may take different turns. Someone did pull that smoke alarm, or even further out, the pilot was a lousy shot and missed the building all together.

The third tri-dimensional object is the anti-temporal: Essentially a negative of the temporal. Each point encompasses everything which didn't happen at that moment. It is from this set that we gain awareness. By using this space as an anchor, we gain the abilty to see changes in time. We see each of the other two objects as the side of the picture we perceive as reality.

And each of the three sets effects the others. when a physical object comes into being, it begins to move through time, in turn effecting other objects, and creating temporal objects. These temporal objects create equivelant anti-temproal points, which by the sheer energy of not happening, solidify the physical world and allow a path for conciousness.



Again, still a work in progress, anything you have to add would be appreciated.

*Note: edited by the author for typos 3/28/06*

[nuit09]

I think you need to look at a branch of cosmology known as M theory. I say this because it involves extra dimensions very similar to but not an exact copy of what you are saying. wikkipedia should have an overview.

[xanthk]

I'll do that, thanks for the tip

[nuit09]

Nice avatar! good job on the file size reduction! :D

[xanthk]

Thanks! Took about 10 tries to get it small enough, but worth it :)

[redjazz]

have any of you guys experienced anything regarding time and space and dimensions while hypnotized or trying to be hypnotized? i've been listening to trigwoman2 for several months, and last weekend after listening to the file i was really under and i went to the mirror to see the transformation occur. what usually happens is things begin to become fuzzy, and then my face and body vaguely become more feminine. this time however, the fuzziness came, and sort of took on a 3-D form, which i can compare to what jodie foster saw in contact. so i was able to see silhouettes of people all around me, like what the preditor's camouflage was like in the movie Preditor (apologies for the movie allussions, but trying to give a good feeling for what it was like. it also felt like i the ground was rocking, as if i were on an old elevator. i tried it a few times and every time it lasted about 5 minutes. at first i chalked it up to the just the hypnosis, but i've been thinking about it and am not sure what to make of it...has this ever happened to anyone else?

[CuriousG]

Redjazz, you don't need to make a topic and post the exact same thing in this thread. And no, it's not happened to anyone else. You're just a little woozy from the hypnosis is all.

[redjazz]

Good call, my bad, that was my mulligan. Listen, i wanna know if anyone else has read about the ancient mayan perceptions on time, it's pretty fascinating. with seemingly primative tools and a primative understanding of astronomy they created a calendar that is far and away more precise than our own gregorian one. whereas we base our 365 day yearly cycle based primarly on earth rotation as it pertains to crop and migration cycles, they had three separate intertwining calendars based on the sun, the moon and venus. they view time as cyclical (as in history repeats itself) and creation - or conciousness - as moving ever forward. each cycle in the mayan calendar accelerates twenty fold upon completion and according to them we are fast approaching the last period of the last cycle before ultimate conciousness (the reckoning or rapture) occurs, so they say will be in february of 2011. so far the events that have occurred and reoccurred in similar fashion throughout history since the big bang 16.4 billion years ago have been almost dead on.

[fringlinin1]

What if you went back in time and became your own father, or wound up in a Total Perspective Vortex? 8O

Ah, the oft-debated "Nasty in the Pasty"

[fringlinin1]

actually, human consciousness will reach infinity on December 21, 2012, not Feb 2011... according to Mayans, anyway... it is true that everything they have predicted happens with a surreal accuracy. It's downright incredible.

fun fact: independent research that was unaware of the Mayan prophecy tracked the big revolutions in humanity on an exponential graph. Big revolutions like the agricultural, industrial, and technological revolutions are happening at a faster rate. Their projected/extrapolated data for where the curve approaches a vertical line (infinity) is: you guessed it, December 21, 2012.

[Pallando]

So according to the Mayans we're on a collision course to this period of Higher Consciousnes by 2012?

[Kalendaine]

According to basic quantum theory, nothing exists without first being observed. "observation" in this sense, is measurement. For instance, you wouldn't know that something is taking a short - or long - time unless you were actively trying to measure it, i.e. observing.

Observing, supposedly, defines the properties of what is observed, but only for what you are measuring. As an example, if you were observing when a particle hit something, then you would define that, but if you observing the path it took, you'd get that instead. If you measured both, then the outcome might be different than if you observed each property seperately.

In that light, 'time' isn't that big a deal. Neither is 'space' or 'gravity' or 'light.' You'll always find exactly what you seek, simply because you're looking for it. Sometimes, in so doing, you'll actually stumble on something new, and define it for others as well. :p

[Mari4199]

Anything is possible.

Nothing is absolute.

:)

[Dischordian]

if space is truely infinite, spanning vast regions without boundaries, then there has to be planets, beings and objects made from every possible chemical combination, which means that floating out there somewhere in the sky is a planet composed of what we on earth would call Lime Jell-O. And this makes me happy, for it shows how F---ed up the world really is!
When you consider that we are standing (or sitting!) on a large floating ball suspended in nothingness, it's pretty hard to take ANYTHING else seriously.

[Mari4199]

Even science is starting to come to the conclusion that reality is fluid and is mostly based on the perceptions of the viewer. But then again science is not everything. Ancient tibetan monks have known for some time that man makes his own reality. :)