Theories about god

[sandy82]

I know the feeling, Dave, but don't despair. Goldragon, I see the source of your irritation and I remind you of your closing comment yesterday. Lack of civility is a descending staircase. Dave ended with an impersonal comment about leaving before he said something offensive. I understand why you didn't like that. But then you introduced second-person language and issued two orders. I don't think that the two of you have a "history" of which a new participant would be unaware. Therefore, I doubt that there are pre-existing tensions on either side or both sides. Let's not descend the staircase any farther. Let me try a possible middle-of-the-road approach--and perhaps get hit from all directions.

It seems to me that all positions on this issue of God/no god start with an unprovable premise. Stated slightly differently, the arguments begin at the end. When you think about it, that's the most likely way for the argument to be framed because there is no empirical data on either side.

I use this example. Is there a bat in the vacationing neighbor's house? I don't know. But since I don't whether one is there, I also don't know whether one is not there. I suppose I could go look (I have the key), but the game has an additional rule. I am forbidden to go anywhere near the house. Therefore, I don't even have such evidence as an open window or an absence of insects on window sills. I can't get close enough to hear the flapping of wings after nightfall.

I don't mind the unprovable premise-turned-conclusion. I do get irritated at some of the half-baked "reasons" given in support of one position or the other. I had a camp counselor once, a pre-med student, who said that the structure of the human hand was so complex and so wondrous that there had to be a God. Something about that statement wasn't satisfying when I was 11 or 12, but I didn't know what it was. I do now. It's two things basically: the mixing of the subjective and objective, and the intensity of belief being directly linked to the limitations of the observer. Because the pre-med student thinks the human hand is so wondrous (subjective), there must be a God (objective). That process, with different ingredients, can lead to Hitlerism and Stalinism...or almost-anything-ism. And if the pre-med student had known considerably more about the hand, he might have been less impressed with its wonders. Being impressed through one's own lack of knowledge extends from looking at hands to the first sight of burning gunpowder to thunder and lightning.

On the other side, some of the secondary arguments are surprisingly similar. Because I can't use my five senses to experience the presence of God, then there isn't one. That's the logical equivalent of saying: I admit that all my five senses are limited (sight between infrared and ultraviolet; hearing between 20 and 20,000 KHz, olfactory sense that's pitiful compared to a dog's, etc.), but because I can't experience something that may exist far outside those limits, then that something is not there.

Many of the pro and con arguments are extensions/extrapolations of threshold positions stated more precisely, I'm sure, than I have expressed them.

What holds true for God/no god applies to the Bible. Speaking personally, I have never found the Bible very interesting. And I quickly add that, if there is a God, he may not find me very interesting. (That statement alone should be enough to make some site users into instant true believers. :wink: ) The arguments about whether the Bible or other holy books are the work of God are fine, but they don't lead anywhere. The Bible is interesting as a record of the incremental civilizing of one gradually expanding area of humanity. The beginnings are very simple, concrete and straightforward. The concepts are easy to understand, even if technicaly inaccurate. Whether or not the author was God or the scribe/priest of the people, the story of creation is broken into "days" like a book is broken into chapters or paragraphs. A new idea for each day. Man is shown/realizes that killing one's own son is not necessary. Then a clear-cut series of rules. Justice, fire-and-brimstone harangues, then mercy. Parables that deal with abstract ideas but use 100 percent concrete imagery. The first real taste of abstract philosophy comes with a Greek-educated Roman citizen of Jewish background, years after the death of the historical Jesus. That's quite a record of two-layer history. The upper layer is the viewpoint of the writer; the second layer comprises the happenings and viewpoints of the characters/subjects/actors in the underlying story.

Despite the efforts of some politicians to make points by discarding knowledge, a big disagreement over irreconcilable viewpoints isn't worth it--except to the politicians.

There's one thing we can all agree on. If there's a God or if there's not a god, there's nothing we can do about it. None of us makes much difference in the larger scheme of things anyway. How many of us will be remembered a century from now--any of us?--as this same debate continues, seemingly forever and ever.

[Ceot]

Not to offend any one.

But if I die.
you can all visit my grave stone with the satanic symble and the epitath.

{Well at least I knew were I was going.}

And you can knock three times on the stone.
If I dont knock back i,m either held for the moment somewere.
Or their is no after life.
See it as you want.....But if I do knock back.........


Seriosly go for it.
I wont tell.

[sandy82]

LOL, Ceot, I don't think you can offend anyone in this Forum. Unless you said you were a devout Catholic who attends Mass every Sunday and Confession every Saturday. Then maybe a dozen or so would jump you.

The possibility of no afterlife has been covered. Ditto, Satanism. I doubt that you'll have a gravestone or an epitaph. Cremations are becoming more common. Heirs, when faced with the choice between a funeral and a new plasma TV, seem increasingly to decide to do something meaningful with the ashes. Like casting them into the wind from a mountaintop, which is also free.

Your last image is new for the site. The Oldies station here occasionally plays Tony Orlando and Dawn.

"Knock three times on the ceiling if you want me.
Twice on the pipe, if the answer is no."

The part in parentheses suggests a belief in heaven, as an alternative to hell. That may bring out some objections.

[goldragon_70]

I'm sorry if my last reply was a little low, just get tired of the old play. The topic seems to be straying now.

[InsaneCPRClown]

i heard that everytime science has tried to prove gods creations wrong... they had failed... which there puts some belief of god into me... but then again i do have my quarrels wit god =/ and i aint ever gunna go to heaven (if anyone believes in it) but ima be goin straight to hell... but yea i heard somewhere that, that was true that science cant prove god wrong O_O

[sandy82]

Goldragon, no need to apologize, but the offer is rare and welcome.

The topic did stray. I'm partly to blame. I hope it will stay on track now.

[Mr_Oblivious]

Mr. Oblivious wonders if some people are more angry with God than they are disbelieving.

[sandy82]

Mr. Oblivious wonders if some people are more angry with God than they are disbelieving.

Very interesting observation. What do you think of the following line of thought? I'm not buying or selling; I'm just asking.

Since many people's view of God comes in part from how they themselves picture God via self-projection, when they are angry with God they are really and/or also angry with themselves.
.

[goldragon_70]

Mr. Oblivious wonders if some people are more angry with God than they are disbelieving.

Very interesting observation. What do you think of the following line of thought? I'm not buying or selling; I'm just asking.

Since many people's view of God comes in part from how they themselves picture God via self-projection, when they are angry with God they are really and/or also angry with themselves.
.

I like this question. So people hate themselfs and therefor hate god. I also see people who already hate themselfs and are angry at god for not being there to make there life better, when it's realy they who are not trying to get out of what they are in.

[JKnaugh13]

There is only one God, the God of Abraham. All those who seek to worship other false gods will suffer for eternity in Hell. Every man is flawed, every man sins. There is still time to repent. I will pray for you all to embrace God's love. I feel not anger towards those who do not believe in God, only sadness and pity.

[Mallic]

This is an area for the discussion of Philosophy, Religion & Politics. WARNING! Debates may become heated, Personal attacks or religious recruiting are not permitted.

Just letting you know, mate, these are the rules

You know, I don't really care about all the YOU MUST PRAISE *generic god 293* OTHERWISE YOU SHALL BURN IN HELL!!! I'll just lead a neutrel life full of hard work *snigger* and good deeds. I don't want to praise my way it paradise.

[Mr_Oblivious]

Mr. Oblivious wonders if some people are more angry with God than they are disbelieving.

Very interesting observation. What do you think of the following line of thought? I'm not buying or selling; I'm just asking.

Since many people's view of God comes in part from how they themselves picture God via self-projection, when they are angry with God they are really and/or also angry with themselves.
.

Mr. Oblivious first thought that even he could see this idea for pseudo-intellectual psychobabble worthy of Oprah's Dr. Phil or the slower and talkier moments of a Mortal Kombat movie. Then Goldragon went and made sense of it.

There is no bag over Goldragon's head!

[goldragon_70]

Mr. Oblivious first thought that even he could see this idea for pseudo-intellectual psychobabble worthy of Oprah's Dr. Phil or the slower and talkier moments of a Mortal Kombat movie. Then Goldragon went and made sense of it.

There is no bag over Goldragon's head!

Nope no bag. Daddy Bear wants me to see every last horrible thing.


JKnaugh13 I was always taught not to judge, yet even what you say is judgmental, But I believe god doesn't judge either, and that Christ came here not to remove our sins, but to nock since back in us, and tell us there is no sin, that it's just our fear and guilt for not being apart of god anymore.

[Mallic]

There is only one God, the God of Abraham. All those who seek to worship other false gods will suffer for eternity in Hell. Every man is flawed, every man sins. There is still time to repent. I will pray for you all to embrace God's love. I feel not anger towards those who do not believe in God, only sadness and pity.

In-fact, could an admin get rid of this post, not only does it breach the forum rule, it go against the spirit of the thread

[aeroue]

Theories about God...

That is his theory let him have it.
If you don't like it don't read it.

Anyways.

The God of classical theism does not exist.
But something probably does.

That is my theory.

[Mallic]

Theories about God...

That is his theory let him have it.
If you don't like it don't read it.

Anyways.

The God of classical theism does not exist.
But something probably does.

That is my theory.

So, is that one down for agnostic?

[tantetruus]

ive never believed in a deity nor a hereafter, thinking it was just all made up. until i got this expirience, and my believe changed totally. from that moment on i am a high believer in a hereafter.

A very good friend of mine (lets just call her V) is doing all kinds of paranormal activities, and she's learning me a few "tricks" too. she taught me that every person has a special paranormal talent. she told me hers was being a medium. able to communicate with specters, ghosts and such.

once, she tried to summon a ghost to communicate with it. she wrote her questions on a sheet of paper, and performed her ritual. (rituals are to be kept secret in each coven). i dont know how it worked, but it did. far too good. the ghost took control of V, and the ghost, (cant remember her name, but it was a young girls ghost, like a girl of eleven or such) forced her to write all the answers on the paper. but then she started speaking, to me. with the voice of a eleven year old girl.

the ghost told me she died in an violent way and more things like telling her parents she was in a better place now, so they shouldnt worry. she missed them. then the ghost left, or V won the struggle, but anyway, V was V again.

since that day, since that experience, i do believe in a hereafter in some kind. a deity, still is just made up for me.

i know it sounds a little unbelieveable, but this is what i believe. i saw what i saw, right? and this experience is more convincing than a priest who states there is some guy allmighty, telling me to do stuff like going to the church, and be good and so on. i just try to be good, and honest and all the such, but i dont believe in a god. thats just it.

P.S. i hope my english is good enough to read my post, my grammar isnt that good.

[gurlbidesign]

Man has never been able to create a god who was much better then man himself. Many have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. IMHO if you get your god from a book and not from your life, you are probably at least a little wrong. If your beliefs make you feel better thats great, if they make you feel better then others you probably need to work on that.

[Ceot]

I think mankind is its own god.
Let thy hearts judge our own sins.

That way theirs still hope for me
to get into some form of heaven.

[ubermullet]

Wow, no matter what fourm you go on there's always something about God.

I've been a Christian for only 2-3 years now and I no longer just believe that there is a God, I now know that there is one.

He has helped me through tough times and has blessed me with many things. Including $36,000 for school! :D

And when I defy him, he does punish me. Quite clearly.

Sure, some people could call those things coincidence, but I call statement a blanket statement. I can't get the image out of my head of someone who refuses to believe in God, sitting in the corner of a rubber room, huging their knees and rocking back and forth saying over and over, "Its just a coincidence its just a coincidence its just a coincidence its just a coincidence..."

And I hope this conversation doesn't degrade into a Bible smashing arguement. Because in my opinion, the Bible is just a Guide on how to get to God. It doesn't have 100% of the answers, you have to walk the path and find them for yourself!

Let's hope I don't piss off too many Atheists with this post :wink:
No offence intended, but my experience has been when ever I say that God is real, I get barked at. I hope that's not the case here.

Cheers! :D

[gurlbidesign]

How about a short shot at the old testament? Most people don't get as offended with that.

Would this be the god who sent 2 bears to rend 42 little children into little bits just for sassing someone he liked?

[ubermullet]

Well... the thing is with the old testiment, is that even Jesus said that it is out of date.

Its a nice history lesson as to where we came from, but with was just written to teach us, not written for us.

And just because God gets pissed off once in a while doesn't mean He doesn't exist :P

[gurlbidesign]

ok...how about St. Peter describing Lot as a just and rightous man. St. Pete ought to know, he was given the keys to heaven. Yet Lot offered his two virgin daughters up for a gang bang to try to get the crowd to not bother his two guests. Guests who by his actions he had to be pretty sure that they could take care of themselves. Like I said, in both instances man couldn't come up with a god with better manners and morals then themselves. A god who can kill little children just for being kids, and condones rape isn't my idea of a supreme being, but more like a candidate for his own bears.

[ubermullet]

If God wasn't like us, then how could He be our Father?

Reading the bible, I think God is more "human" (and I use the term loosly) then what we concider a Supreme Being to be. I mean, God loves, meaing He has feelings. Probably the more violent ones too! And he has done things that he regrets, like Noah's Flood. The rainbow is a big "I'm Sorry" card from God!

Which means, making Adam in his own image, probably ment more then just his physical appearence. :)

[Ceot]

Did it ever acure to any one that its just that.
A lesson taught in a book and nothing more.
I,m the cryptic one rite?

Ok did it ever acure to any one that
the popper and king, beeing backwards was intended?

Saying that a man who is a king in heart survives inside.
And he dies with no regrets.
Neednt he actually be rich and a dictated king.

Just a man with a golden heart.

And a man with week nature often finds his own hell.
Hense the popper.
He need not be poor at all.


P.S

I think Jesus was born from a chamera.
Dont think I spelled that rite.
But maybe marry was her own husband?...

Oh really hope that didnt get any one upset.
I ment it in a purely sceintific way.

Chamera's have their fraternal twins genetics inside.
So X and Y equal baby...?

Althow I know how it must sound.

[gurlbidesign]

If God wasn't like us, then how could He be our Father?

Exactly my point. Don't start from an unproveable assumption and then apply logic to it.

Reading the bible, I think God is more "human" (and I use the term loosly) then what we concider a Supreme Being to be. I mean, God loves, meaing He has feelings. Probably the more violent ones too! And he has done things that he regrets, like Noah's Flood. The rainbow is a big "I'm Sorry" card from God!

Again, an assumption stated as fact "God loves"

Which means, making Adam in his own image, probably ment more then just his physical appearence. :)

The notion that God the father, shaper and creater of the universe expects the saturnine adoration of his creations and becomes petulent if he doesn't receive it is one of the most absurd things man has ever come up with.

[Mallic]

Wow, no matter what fourm you go on there's always something about God.

I've been a Christian for only 2-3 years now and I no longer just believe that there is a God, I now know that there is one.

He has helped me through tough times and has blessed me with many things. Including $36,000 for school! :D

And when I defy him, he does punish me. Quite clearly.

Sure, some people could call those things coincidence, but I call statement a blanket statement. I can't get the image out of my head of someone who refuses to believe in God, sitting in the corner of a rubber room, huging their knees and rocking back and forth saying over and over, "Its just a coincidence its just a coincidence its just a coincidence its just a coincidence..."

And I hope this conversation doesn't degrade into a Bible smashing arguement. Because in my opinion, the Bible is just a Guide on how to get to God. It doesn't have 100% of the answers, you have to walk the path and find them for yourself!

Let's hope I don't piss off too many Atheists with this post :wink:
No offence intended, but my experience has been when ever I say that God is real, I get barked at. I hope that's not the case here.

Cheers! :D

You know, it really is impossible that there is the Christain god. I'm not an aethiest, but I myself have never being involved with divine intervention, and I don't think the bible is correct either. God supposedly created us in his image. Unless he was stupid, he probably created us in his psycological image as well. He had less-than-subtle tricks up his sleeve. How many times have you set up a trap for someone and laugh at them (rhetroical)

He puts this big tree up in on a hill, polishes it, puts on of those shining lights behind it. Whats more, he LETS little snakey boy come in, doesn't tell A'n'E not to talk to strangers, and tells them not to eat the apples. Of course they do, he leaps from behind a cloud and says "Got you" and BLAMES it on them. He does nothing to get rid of snakey, and turns them away when they try to repent.

After mankind has sat in the corner for a little while, thinking about what their gullible ansestors have done, he kills them in a flood, only telling a village idiot about it, and having the day be saved by a dove. This guy has effectivly done away with his birdies by saying that we can take over them, but then gets pissed when we take him for his word

So having got a legoin of hypocracies under his belt, he vowes never to do that again, letting his supporters to give a reason for disregarding hermits. So he goes for commandments and stone carvings, which seemed to be the new black these day, and gace them to us for sheer 'I told you so' effect.

Now days, all I hear is "Armageddon is coming! Come give money to us instead of the HEATHENS!! You shall be saved!" So fire and brimstone is what does it for this cloud guy now, and all naysayers will go straight to hell. Snakey is still on the loose, handinhand with Junior Shrub, and now we have to throw our pockets to he to be saved for an eons old mistake.

He tells us not to worship other gods. Does he tell us why? No. He throws armageddon on us. Still no tell. He swapped to the socalled "Bussiness management". He does not take feedback. That is not a god. That is not a religion. That is not a matter of faith. That is a joke.

[ubermullet]

You know, it really is impossible that there is the Christain god. I'm not an aethiest, but I myself have never being involved with divine intervention, and I don't think the bible is correct either.

If you've never tried looking for God, then how do you know that he doesn't exist? Have you actually spent a good amount of time knocking on heaven's door and got no answer?

Divine Intervention is very real. The Holy Spirit is very real. Jesus is alive and in heaven.

To agrue these point to me, from my point of view, is like trying to agrue that the sky isn't blue.

I'm a single father because the mother of my child, did not take care of our kid. I had a lot of bitterness and almost hatred toward her. Which would not be healthy for my kid down the road!
So I go to a Christain Church. A Partner's in Harvest one. They like to really like to fill people up with the holy spirit! :D
I start praying there while they're singing. Its a rock band too, nice work with the drum set in the chruch there!
And then I can't help but to start crying. And keep crying. Like crying so much it was physically painful. I had to lay down. Realizing that his was from God, it started to make me laugh, while I was crying my heart out! So there I was, on the floor of this chruch crying and laughing so hard that it litrerally hurt! It ended, eventually...
The next day I realized that all the bitterness toward the Mother of my Child was GONE
It was just gone, it did no exist anymore.
I asked for God's help, and he gave it to me. My prayers are answered on a daily basis.
So you can either admit that God is real, or I'm some super psykic guy that can change reality by calling out the name of God.

You people who don't believe in God, you tell me what happend to me that day!

He puts this big tree up in on a hill, polishes it, puts on of those shining lights behind it. Whats more, he LETS little snakey boy come in, doesn't tell A'n'E not to talk to strangers, and tells them not to eat the apples. Of course they do, he leaps from behind a cloud and says "Got you" and BLAMES it on them. He does nothing to get rid of snakey, and turns them away when they try to repent.

yeah, Adam and Eve were the first people with Free Will. They probably caught God off guard when they did that.
I think the big leason for everyone that day is that you can't enjoy paradise without going through hell first!

This guy has effectivly done away with his birdies by saying that we can take over them, but then gets pissed when we take him for his word

....huh? Could you expand on that a bit please?

So having got a legoin of hypocracies under his belt, he vowes never to do that again, letting his supporters to give a reason for disregarding hermits. So he goes for commandments and stone carvings, which seemed to be the new black these day, and gace them to us for sheer 'I told you so' effect.

What are you talking about? Hermits? New Black? What?

Now days, all I hear is "Armageddon is coming! Come give money to us instead of the HEATHENS!! You shall be saved!" So fire and brimstone is what does it for this cloud guy now, and all naysayers will go straight to hell. Snakey is still on the loose, handinhand with Junior Shrub, and now we have to throw our pockets to he to be saved for an eons old mistake.

If a church is seriously telling you that you have to give them money in order to be saved, put a rock through one of its windows for me okay? Seriously. All you have to do to get to heaven is ask for it. Accept the fact that Jesus is your lord, because he is already, repent your sins to him. Which can be done anywhere at any time. And you get a free ticket to paradise! Why is this so hard to do? Really? Why can't you just do this?

He tells us not to worship other gods. Does he tell us why? No. He throws armageddon on us. Still no tell. He swapped to the socalled "Bussiness management". He does not take feedback.

Are you saying that you could run the universe better? If you could give feedback, what would you change that wouldn't have concequences?

That is not a god. That is not a religion. That is not a matter of faith. That is a joke.

Well, that is God whether you like it or not. Religion is Religion. Faith has made me a better person 10 times over. And yes, God does have a sense of humour. Have you looked at Sexual Peeks? 18 for guys, 32 for women. I find that very funny. Also, let's not forget the Platypus.

[gurlbidesign]

Its' called catharsis I think.....if you want to attribute it to a devine spirit then go ahead. Lots of us do it without any outside help at all. Is the sky really blue or is it just an optical illusion?

[missypuss]

Actually I think you will find a woman hits her sexual peek when shes 38 years old..
Now where are all those nubile 18 year old boys..... :twisted:

[gurlbidesign]

What peak? There was a peak? I don't remember any peak.

[Mallic]

You know, it really is impossible that there is the Christain god. I'm not an aethiest, but I myself have never being involved with divine intervention, and I don't think the bible is correct either.

If you've never tried looking for God, then how do you know that he doesn't exist? Have you actually spent a good amount of time knocking on heaven's door and got no answer?

You don't understand what I said. I was pointing out the flaws of the bible and the church's so-called god. I have no quarells with the concept of a god. If I didn't try looking for a god I wouldn't of started this thread.

I'm a single father because the mother of my child, did not take care of our kid. I had a lot of bitterness and almost hatred toward her. Which would not be healthy for my kid down the road!
So I go to a Christain Church. A Partner's in Harvest one. They like to really like to fill people up with the holy spirit! Very Happy
I start praying there while they're singing. Its a rock band too, nice work with the drum set in the chruch there!
And then I can't help but to start crying. And keep crying. Like crying so much it was physically painful. I had to lay down. Realizing that his was from God, it started to make me laugh, while I was crying my heart out! So there I was, on the floor of this chruch crying and laughing so hard that it litrerally hurt! It ended, eventually...
The next day I realized that all the bitterness toward the Mother of my Child was GONE
It was just gone, it did no exist anymore.
I asked for God's help, and he gave it to me. My prayers are answered on a daily basis.
So you can either admit that God is real, or I'm some super psykic guy that can change reality by calling out the name of God.

If you believe that god (in the broad sence) gave you the power to take away your bitterness (Or god did) then thats great and I have no problems with that. Whether it was the god from the bible is debatable

yeah, Adam and Eve were the first people with Free Will. They probably caught God off guard when they did that.
I think the big leason for everyone that day is that you can't enjoy paradise without going through hell first!

Caught him off gaurd? He's god for one thing, he knew that snakey was in the place. Why? Cause he's god. He has been here forever and he knew about lucifur a long time ago. He created a being with free will knowing what that would let them do. He set the limitations and therefor the lack thereof.

....huh? Could you expand on that a bit please?

He said that we had total control over the animal kingdom.

What I'm saying though the rabies is that the god from the bible is too inconsistent and irrational and illogiacal to be real. A differant god that helps the weak to become strong, helps the strong to help the weak and punishes the cruel is much more likely as your story demonstrates.

If heven and hell are the way to go, then the purpose of this life is to prune off the cruel. Seeing that the cruel are going strong, I feel this is not the case. Reincarnation and choosing what you do in the afterlife is much more likely. God seems more like a manager then a deity. He give promotions and chooses who does what. I have had my psycological proof that A god exsists.

Religon will almost always be corrupt and polical because the religous leaders have power and influance.

[Mallic]

Are you saying that you could run the universe better? If you could give feedback, what would you change that wouldn't have concequences?

That does not make sence. If it had no consequences it would be no good to change it? I myself would go for a radical redesign of the workings of the universe, but as I don't intend to run the universe (for some reason it never came to me to de so) I haven't made any big plans

[Primus]

God is great, god is good, let us thank him for this food.

If God is really so great then why did I have to work my ass for the food in the first place?


Seriously though long ago I learned there really isn't a god. The power is in us all it just takes great control to use. Long ago man once existed in a hive mind and through that ancient great things like Stone Henge and Atlantis were built. The psychic backlash of Atlantis' destruction is what caused the mental barriers to arise and block the contact as well as limit the power that everyone can draw on.


Till the day when all are one
Primus the alpha and Omega

[Mallic]

You see, I do not say to you now: how can you think that, you are going to rot in hell if you do not renounce your way SINNER!!

[Primus]

The good book mentions one man's return from heaven to life, do you think not that the path though longer and more uphill is not also possible to make? In truth good sir we are all currently living in hell anyways so would then not eternal damnation be the same as eternal life?


Always remember when Eternal Life is on the barganing platter make sure Eternal Youth is as well. It is wonderful to live to be one thousand years old but to feel one thousand as well...

[Mallic]

So having got a legoin of hypocracies under his belt, he vowes never to do that again, letting his supporters to give a reason for disregarding hermits. So he goes for commandments and stone carvings, which seemed to be the new black these day, and gave them to us for sheer 'I told you so' effect.

What are you talking about? Hermits? New Black? What?

You can't add anything to the bible can you? Thats what I mean by "disregaurding hermits"

[ubermullet]

If God is really so great then why did I have to work my ass for the food in the first place?

Because if everything was perfect, we'd probably be all spoiled brats and would still complain about everything.

@Mallic

Well, the thing about the Bible is that it was written by humans. And, as a species, Humans are really dumb. So I only look to the Bible as a Guide more then a straight Forward Rule Book. For example; I'm having trouble defining what the bible conciders Sex to be. Is it just intercourse or is it more? I can't seem to find it. Also, I definatly won't find anything about videogames in there, so I'll have to make my own mind up about that stuff.

I like to attend Vineyard or Partners in Harvest Christian Chruches. When the Manifisations of the Holy Spirit start happening around you, you really either start to believe, or get totally wierded out.

Man, I went to a Chruch today, just a regular christian chruch, and man was it boring. I mean, now I understand why they're aren't more Christians if the majority of people only have that stuff to base God off of. I mean, it does work for a lot of people, but for someone like me... I just get bored and want to leave!

Anyways, God rules, g'night!

[Mallic]

If God is really so great then why did I have to work my ass for the food in the first place?

Because if everything was perfect, we'd probably be all spoiled brats and would still complain about everything.

@Mallic

Well, the thing about the Bible is that it was written by humans. And, as a species, Humans are really dumb. So I only look to the Bible as a Guide more then a straight Forward Rule Book. For example; I'm having trouble defining what the bible conciders Sex to be. Is it just intercourse or is it more? I can't seem to find it. Also, I definatly won't find anything about videogames in there, so I'll have to make my own mind up about that stuff.

I like to attend Vineyard or Partners in Harvest Christian Chruches. When the Manifisations of the Holy Spirit start happening around you, you really either start to believe, or get totally wierded out.

Man, I went to a Chruch today, just a regular christian chruch, and man was it boring. I mean, now I understand why they're aren't more Christians if the majority of people only have that stuff to base God off of. I mean, it does work for a lot of people, but for someone like me... I just get bored and want to leave!

Anyways, God rules, g'night!

This is the typical view of people who want to put a "GOD IS REAL" face on anything and everything. I mean, what the fuck is with this:

"Because if everything was perfect, we'd probably be all spoiled brats and would still complain about everything"

I thought that heven was suposed to be the perfect land where (as they say in the matrix) nobody suffered and everyone is happy. Thank you god for giving me the task of my own survival, you truely are the most compassionate person around.

"Well, the thing about the Bible is that it was written by humans. And, as a species, Humans are really dumb"

Dumb enough to believe what they wrote and pretend that it was from the mouth of god himself, for long enough that it became emmbeded into their culture

"So I only look to the Bible as a Guide more then a straight Forward Rule Book"

Of course, some things are a straight-forward rule and others are just guides. Thou shall not kill. Of course, in the O.T you can kill in self defence, but in the N.T, you have to let the guy hit your other two cheeks. You pick and choose.

"I mean, now I understand why they're aren't more Christians if the majority of people only have that stuff to base God off of"

No, the problem is the fundamental workings of the god they worship. Funny how he heals on sick person, but let thousands of innocents die in war. Oh, sorry, I fogot, that would spoil us.

[Primus]

just like the spoon there is no New Testiment... Old school on you fools! I bring my wrath down upon all those who dare to cross me.

Seriously though Humanity is a contradiction in and of itself. God created man in his image and in years later man returned the favor. They're great stories to glean lessons from but that shit is wack you and anyone who takes it on face value... I have this bridge for sale in Brooklyn

[JKnaugh13]

just like the spoon there is no New Testiment... Old school on you fools! I bring my wrath down upon all those who dare to cross me.

Seriously though Humanity is a contradiction in and of itself. God created man in his image and in years later man returned the favor. They're great stories to glean lessons from but that shit is wack you and anyone who takes it on face value... I have this bridge for sale in Brooklyn

So apparently people can post all the God bashing they want, yet one of the only posts in favor of a God is immediately flamed. Would my post have sit better if I had added the "But, that's just my opinion" tag at the bottom? I know what your response to this will be, "But your post was insulting and inflammatory". However, I feel that all your God bashing is just as insulting to me as my post was to you. I take offense to all of the posts basically calling me stupid and infantile for being so naive to believe in a God.

But, that's just my opinion.

[Primus]

I've read the book cover to cover. Does it make me an expert on the subject? hell no. but it does at least mean that I have a basic understanding versus some of the other people who bash god.

In my not to humble opinion I've got to say that the difference in how the Old testiment comares to the new shows that society drifted to far and the new was an attempt to bring back the peace. The only problem that we haven't really gone back to the peace idea.

[gurlbidesign]

Hey, if you need a god or religion in your life then by all means go for it. My comments on the subject were my own views and if in your opinion I am going to eternal damnation for them why should you be offended? Those that take the bible as the literal word of god confuse me. As the book was written hundreds of years after the claimed events by several different men and since then it has been revamped and poorly translated repeatedly. I know a man who claims to be saved and has a direct line to heaven when the trumpets blow, yet his general behavior would not get him through my front door. Which of us is right? Ya got me. All I know is that I meet my own standards of conduct in this life and if that doesn't cut it in the afterlife then I probably would have been very uncomfortable there anyway.

[ubermullet]

This is the typical view of people who want to put a "GOD IS REAL" face on anything and everything. I mean, what the fuck is with this:

"Because if everything was perfect, we'd probably be all spoiled brats and would still complain about everything"

I thought that heven was suposed to be the perfect land where (as they say in the matrix) nobody suffered and everyone is happy. Thank you god for giving me the task of my own survival, you truely are the most compassionate person around.

"Well, the thing about the Bible is that it was written by humans. And, as a species, Humans are really dumb"

Dumb enough to believe what they wrote and pretend that it was from the mouth of god himself, for long enough that it became emmbeded into their culture

"So I only look to the Bible as a Guide more then a straight Forward Rule Book"

Of course, some things are a straight-forward rule and others are just guides. Thou shall not kill. Of course, in the O.T you can kill in self defence, but in the N.T, you have to let the guy hit your other two cheeks. You pick and choose.

"I mean, now I understand why they're aren't more Christians if the majority of people only have that stuff to base God off of"

No, the problem is the fundamental workings of the god they worship. Funny how he heals on sick person, but let thousands of innocents die in war. Oh, sorry, I fogot, that would spoil us.

But we have suffered. Ever noticed how this life rather sucks?

Pretended? No no no my friend. I know that the bible is right, but there is the issue of language and translation. Words can mean different things, and english isn't the most detailed language.

And no, you don't just pick and choose. You follow everything but you have to study the bible to truely understand what its teachings really are. I'm sorry if you actually have to sit down and read the thing to understand it! Instead of taking bits of it and saying you know everything.

And yes it would spoil us. Just think about the difference between this society and the poorer 3rd world countries. Imagine what I shock it would be to someone over there to find themselves here! This would be a magical paradice. But there are some people out there that don't truely know (or don't care) what its like in the 3rd world countries.

Take someone from here. He's got a nice car, nice house, etc. Force him to live over there for 5 years. When he comes back, how much to you think he'll apperciate what he has here?

@ Primus
Sorry to burst you bubble, but when Jesus came, the Old Testiment became out of date. Jesus started the Chruch of Jesus Christ; Christians. To say that there is no New Testiment means that Jesus didn't exist. Even through modern day scholars have recordings that he did walk the earth.

And no, Reading the book will not get you a free ticket. You actually have to learn from it and fit it in your life. Like I said before, its more like a guide then a rule book.

@ JKnaugh13
I'm happy to see that I'm not the only Christian here!
Cheers!

@ gurlbidesign
Why would I care if you go to heaven or hell? Because you're family, d'uh. And don't start bashing the whole Adam and Eve thing. A scientist has discovered that we can all trace our family back to one female monkey. Was this monkey's name Eve, who knows for sure?

And this guy you're talking about doesn't sound very humble. You should tell him that he should stop flaunting (if that's what he's doing) and read the bible more because he's missing teachings.

[Primus]

who wants a ticket to heaven? to quote someone else "I'd rather die with the sinners then cry with the saints the sinners have much more fun"

I like a number of religions don't doubt about there being a Jesus on the earth but he is no son of some supposed 'god'. Also anyone else notice that even ammong montheistic religions christianity is one of the only to call god god versus actually having a name vs Allah, Shiva, Buddah (sp?), Chrishna (I know I spelled that one wrong)

the soul is the start and end of the power of creation, but we have lost how to tap it to any strength.

[Mallic]

So all you have to do is believe in the (power of Santa, or get nothing!) Bible and you will go to heaven and a wonderful afterlife. So, you have to suck up to god to get into heaven? A man of boundless integrity arn't you? A few of the most wonderful people I have met are aseists, but if god didn't let them into heaven, I would do everything in my power to smite him (as stupid as that sounds, but you get the idea)

Jesus was a good guy preaching about being nice to people and not be a dickhead. His mistake, and the mistake of most who came after/before him, was that he put a religion behind his teachings, and (like america) after that it didn't pick up a good reputation from everyone who doesn't belong to it.

[gurlbidesign]

Ubermullet.......so you are saying that god was a monkey???? As we were created in his image. For a supreme being to need a total rewrite of his views strikes me as a little suspect. "This is how I want you to behave, these are my views." "No wait, I have changed my mind.....hear the words of your god now." Do you honestly believe that people lived for hundreds of years back in the "old days"? Do you believe that the world is only a few thousand years old? Do you believe that Noah was able to get two of every creature on this planet into a boat the size of the dimensions given for the ark? Do you believe there was ever a virgin birth? Why do we know beyond any doubt of people and events that happened long before christ was supposedly born yet a man who walked on water and raised the dead cannot be confirmed as having actually walked the earth and done what is claimed?

[Primus]

I dunno about the walk on water stuff, but that raising people from the dead part... you never play the classic halloween game of Wake the Dead?

[ubermullet]

No, I'm not saying God is a monkey. I think God is too big to have a physical body what so ever!

As for the rewrite. I think that has to do with the whole idea of Free Will. I don't think God knows what each specfic person will do one minute from now. He can guess, because he knows everyone one on the planet better then they know themselves, but for predicting our actions? I don't think he can. I think that's why he gave us free will in the first place, so there would actually be something in this universe that he didn't know.

The thing is with Genesis, is that it was written almost totally out of visions. One person in that book, could have been one family. Who knows?
1 day, could have ment, 1 era. I mean, how could you explain millions of years to someone 1,000s of year ago? To them, the earth was flat. The idea of a big round Earth way beyond anyone at that time. Now to those same people, try explaining that there have been Billions of Years since the birth of the universe. If God told them something like that, their heads would explode. Sorry, but they would.

So I believe that yes, God created the universe, just like Science today has discovered. Big bang, Stars forming, space materials collecting to form a planet. Water gushing out onto the surface from gysers, etc etc etc.

And dont' start into trying to use the Bible to prove that God doesn't exist. If you don't believe in Him, of course the Bible might sound like a load of crap. D'uh. But for believers in Him, the Bible makes perfect sense.

Do I believe all those things? yes, but not to the letter. I love God and Jesus, but I'm far from a Fundementalist.

As for the Ark specifically. What if just the known world was flooded. That seems a lot more plausable. I mean one good freak storm with insane amounts of rain and a big storm surge could do it.
As for the animals. You're talking to a guy who believes God is in contorl. He could have just sent them onto the ship and just put them all to sleep for the entire time. *shrug* I have no idea how it happened exactly, but I know it did happen, one way or another.

And one more thing

Why do we know beyond any doubt of people and events that happened...

Its called Faith.
Its quite nice, you should try it some time. :D

[Mallic]

Bullshit, thats all I have to say. If you leave things up to faith, the world falls apart. I have faith we will find WMDs. I have faith that we are the right religion. Peace is based on logic