Question about subliminals

[rmsnk83]

I am curious to know if there is an optimal range of audability for subliminal effects. Obviously, subliminals by definition ought to be just below conscious hearing capability, but what I don't know is at what point the effects cease being audible to the subconscious. So, if going by the format I observe in Audacity, if the normal sound level of an audio file is +0db, then how far down the decibel range can one go before becoming useless? And is there any particular range at which anyone with experience in such things has noticed any particular efficacy?

[sarnoga]

I am curious to know if there is an optimal range of audability for subliminal effects. Obviously, subliminals by definition ought to be just below conscious hearing capability, but what I don't know is at what point the effects cease being audible to the subconscious. So, if going by the format I observe in Audacity, if the normal sound level of an audio file is +0db, then how far down the decibel range can one go before becoming useless? And is there any particular range at which anyone with experience in such things has noticed any particular efficacy?

Hello rmsnk83,

The answer to your question is a difficult one in some respects. The reason for that is that there is no definitive answer, at least in my opinion. It would depend on too many variables.

My understanding of a subliminal is that it supposed to be something discernible by the subconscious mind, yet indiscernible by the conscious mind. This is not limited to audio, but rather any of the senses by which the subconscious mind can perceive information.

As it relates to hypnosis mp3 files which is the main focus of this site, many people take that to mean audio that is discernible by the subconscious mind, yet indiscernible by the conscious mind.

Obviously, subliminals by definition ought to be just below conscious hearing capability

I am not sure that is either obvious or implied by the definition. Certainly that may be one way of creating a subliminal. But my understanding is that to be subliminal, what is needed is that the message is not perceived by the conscious mind but rather discerned only by the subconscious mind. It is not necessarily the case that the entire audio needs to be below conscious hearing capability. While that may be one way to make a message subliminal it is my understanding that there are others. Of course one could get into a discussion of just what needs to beyond or below the ability of the conscious mind to discern to be a subliminal. Is it necessary that the conscious mind not perceive there is a message there, or just that it not be able to perceive the content of that message. I will go with the later, some may insist on the former.

Others may acknowledge that only the content of the message need be subliminal but still prefer when the entire message itself is subliminal rather than just the content. That can be a matter of preference or suitability for a particular purpose.

There is one view that a subliminal hypnosis recording should be below conscious hearing level, and certainly that could be one way to do it, if you can find the right level. Some people feel this can be accomplished simply by adjusting the volume level. I find that problematic for several reasons. One reason it is problematic is simple mechanics.

In this context, if the sound does not register on a person's ear drums there is no information available for their mind to discern, regardless if you are referring to the conscious, subconscious or unconscious. When using a medium like an Mp3 that is even more problematic.

Everyone has different equipment they are using. Some information is lost in the recording process. Some microphones pick up more than others and if the recording is digital the program used to record comes into play. Not all programs necessarily use the same method or process and not all available information is recorded. Additional information can be lost in the process of compression to Mp3.

Analog recording has the potential for getting more available information but that too depends on the microphone used as well as the medium on which the person is recording. Even then, when converting it to digital for posting on this site or another, or use in any digital devise, one must still deal with the same problems as if it had been a digital recording to begin with.

Even if you use the best of everything, the file then ends up with the one wanting to listen. Not all speakers and headphones are equal. Not everyone's hearing is equal. Then, in the end you get down to your question. Is there some level of volume at which there is enough information transmitted by means of sound waves to first be detected by the ear, and then be discerned by the subconscious mind without being consciously discerned?

Who can say. And that even leaves out the question of... even if this is possible, is it effective. The only way to know for sure would be to conduct controlled experiments. Otherwise what you are left with is conjecture and opinion.

They say opinions are like assholes, everybody has one. I am no different. In my opinion audio hypnosis subliminal recordings that rely on trying to find a perfect volume discernible by the subconscious mind but indiscernible by the conscious mind are of questionable value at best.

A variation on this that is probably better, is to reduce the sound on the message to a lower than normal volume, to a level that can be heard by the ear and still perceived by the conscious mind, but then attempt to make it indiscernible to the conscious mind by masking it with other sounds, possibly music, or binaurals, or both, or perhaps just background sounds or noises. This method is closer to how I used to, or still sometimes, make my subliminal files.

I used to try to post a subliminal with each of my files, but in the last year or so I have largely stopped bothering. The reason I stopped doing it was that the huge amount of time and effort that went into making them did not seem to be merited by the small amount of interest shown in those subliminals. (though I suppose if I followed that reasoning very far I would stop making files altogether)

Having said that, over the years I have submitted a large number of subliminal files to this site, both of my own files and made subliminal files out of other peoples recordings also. As I explained above, I am not particularly taken with trying to make the sound of the recording subliminal by simply reducing the volume. When I make a subliminal I rely on a different method, or theory, if you prefer that term. While some people want the entire file, or the sound of the file, to be subliminal, as in unable for a person listening to even perceive they are listening to something, I don't use that method because I do not consider it effective or reliable.

In my opinion, it is not the sound of the entire file that needs to be subliminal, but rather simply the message or suggestions in the file. Keep in mind, if your ear cannot hear a sound there is nothing there for your mind to perceive either consciously or subconsciously. It is not magic.

I try to make sure there is plenty of sound there to be picked up by the ear and perceived subconsciously. Keep in mind that what I am describing as to how I make subliminal files is simply how I do it. To determine with any certainty if it works would require controlled experiments that to my knowledge have never been conducted. Or one could settle for less reliable information such as anecdotal evidence from individual listeners, something that is rather heavily relied on by users and makers of hypnosis mp3 files.

I take the track of a hypnosis recording, usually minus the induction, and duplicated it several times until I have seven or sometimes nine tracks. Usually mono tracks rather than stereo. I then reduce the volume of each track slightly so that the combined volume of all the tracks does not go beyond a comfortable level after it is all mixed.

The final volume adjustment will be made later but I generally start with a reductions of 6 db. I think seven is often a good number of tracks depending on the recording. I leave one track as it is. The other six tracks I alter the tempo and pitch slightly in pairs. In one pair of tracks I slightly increase the pitch, by maybe 1 percent, perhaps a little less. The other two pairs I decrease the pitch by perhaps .75 percent in the first pair and 1.5 percent in the other pair. I then increase the tempo of each of the pairs by a different amount starting with the pairs that have the most change in pitch, progressively increasing the tempo until I get to the pairs with the least change in pitch.

The more the tempo is increased, the shorter the track is. So in a 30 minute recording the first pair of tracks may be between 6 and 12 seconds shorter than the unaltered track, and each successive pair 6 to 12 seconds shorter than the previous pair. From each pair I align one track, half of the pair, with the start of the unaltered track and one with the end of the unaltered track.

To describe how it would look visually in Audacity, I would have the unaltered track at the top. Just below it I would have the next shortest pair with one track aligned to the start on the left and one aligned to the end on the right.
Below that I would have the next shortest pair aligned the same way, etc.

Once that step is done I go back to the first altered pair and offset its start or end time. The track aligned to the start I offset from the start by a couple seconds or so, leaving it to start a few seconds later than the unaltered track. Then I offset the one aligned with the end so that it ends a few seconds before the unaltered track.

Moving down to the next pair I set one to start a few seconds later than the track before it and the other to end a few seconds earlier than the one before it. I do the same with the next pair.

I then adjust the right/left balance on all the tracks. I leave the unaltered track in the center with an equal right/left balance. I then adjust the right left balance on the rest of the tracks so that I have a track playing at 30, 60 and 90 percent left and 30, 60, and 90 percent right. Sometimes I use different settings but I want each track at a different balance and try to stagger the balance of the tracks to give as much difference as possible in pitch and tempo and alignment between it and the track that is on the spot above and below it for the right and left balance, making sure that none of the pairs are exactly opposite in balance and adjusting the balance in such a way that some of those offset from the end are predominantly right balance and some left, the same with the ones offset from the start. The goal is not having any given track right next to one in the right left balance, or the offset of the track, with a track that is most similar in pitch and tempo.

When all this is done I then once more adjust the volume levels because now that none of the tracks are synchronized the overall volume will be a bit less.

All that is left at this point, once you have it sounding how you want it, is to mix it all back down to one track, save it and convert it to Mp3 without using so much compression that you lose valuable audio information. Prior to doing that, or just after, you can further enhance it by overlaying it with a binaural music track, ordinary music track, or some other background noise, at a relatively low volume. This makes each individual voice even less discernible to the conscious mind.

The effect is that you end up with a multitude of voices, each one different in pitch, tempo, time and balance. It sounds like a crowded room full of voices where it is difficult, if not impossible, to pick out any one voice. The sound is all there, but the theory and hope is that the conscious mind will not be able to distinguish one voice from another.

If someone makes a conscious effort they may be able to focus on only one voice, but that would at least partly defeat the purpose. Though in focusing on one voice the other voices may be slipping into the listener's subconscious. But focusing on only one voice is rather tedious and soon most listeners will just let the noise slip into the background. Also it is not perfect. There are times because of the timing of pauses, phrasing, and emphasis or certain words, that small pieces of the message may slip through to the conscious mind.

The hope is that in so mixing the voices, that the conscious mind cannot discern any one single voice or discern the message. At the same time it is hoped that because all the audio information is still there that the subconscious mind will be able to discern the message and suggestions. Hopefully the subconscious will be able to identify each voice separately because of the difference in pitch, tempo, and time, and because each has a different right left balance. Each track, if listened to separately, would sound like it was in a different spot in your head.

There are some people who do not like this method for various reasons. Those who feel that way are welcome to share their opinions and reasoning as well as any additional information they have, as are those who enjoy subliminal files made this way.

One of the objections to this type of subliminal file is certainly valid. Some people want subliminal files that are more or less surreptitious. They do not want the listener, themselves, or maybe another, to even perceive that they are listening to a hypnosis file. This type of subliminal does not accomplish that.

While this type of file may achieve its end, delivering suggestions to the subconscious that are not perceived by the conscious, someone listening to it definitely knows they are listening to something, at least until they stop paying any attention to it at all. It may even accomplish its ultimate goal of getting a message past the conscious mind into the subconscious, but who is to say.

Does this type of subliminal file work? I don't know. My personal opinion is that such a file would require a great deal of listening to be effective on it's own. However, I think it makes a good supplement to listening to the non-subliminal of the same file while in trance. In other words if you are working with a file in trance, occasionally listening to this type of subliminal of the same file will help reinforce the suggestions, perhaps giving you quicker, longer lasting, or more complete effects from the file.

Still, I think using a subliminal on its own is poor substitute for trance. Also, if you have used the regular non-subliminal file while in trance a few times before using the subliminal, it should make it easier for your subconscious to pick out the subliminal message and benefit from it. If your subconscious is already familiar with the message it may not need to discern each word, but may simply discern enough to recognize the message and respond accordingly.

So anyway, rmsnk83, that may not answer your question, but for what it is worth those are some of my thoughts on the subject. I hope it was at least informative and perhaps helpful. In any respect, for the moment it is the best I can do.

Anyone who wants to comment or add, agree or disagree, with what I just posted, is of course welcome and encouraged to do so. I have no doubt there are many here with more knowledge of subliminal hypnosis than I possess. I know Calimore has done significant research and work with subliminal messages, as may have others of whom I am not aware.

Better information can only benefit everyone. Please share and perhaps you can answer rmsnkk83's question for him, or if not, can still help everyone increase their knowledge of this subject in the hope of improving files.

Regards,

Sarnoga

[bandler]

...
But my understanding is that to be subliminal, what is needed is that the message is not perceived by the conscious mind but rather discerned only by the subconscious mind. It is not necessarily the case that the entire audio needs to be below conscious hearing capability.

... even if this is possible, is it effective. The only way to know for sure would be to conduct controlled experiments. Otherwise what you are left with is conjecture and opinion.

Good News Sarnoga,

Controlled experiments have been done. Finding them is the challenge. Many websites make fabulous claims but fail to properly cite the (fictional?) studies they use to bolster their products.

One study that actually does exist is:

Kaser, V.A. "The Effects of an Auditory Subliminal Perception Message Upon the Production of Images and Dreams". Journal of Nervous and Menthal Disease (1986).

http://journals.lww.com/jonmd/Abstract/1986/07000/The_Effects_of_an_Auditory_Subliminal_Message_upon.3.aspx

The test subjects listened to a subliminal audio message mixed with a music recording. A control group listened to the music recording without the subliminal message. Both groups were asked to create 3 drawings: 1 before and 1 immediately after the music was played, and 1 drawing of any dreams they had on the night of the test. When the drawings were examined, the effect of the subliminal message could be seen.

Derren Brown lifted this study idea and turned it into an entertaining segment on his TV show.

While Derren Brown never reveals how he accomplishes his tricks, the article above explains their technique as speeding up the message to the point the conscious mind can not understand it.

I must say I was fascinated by the detailed description of your process for making subliminals. I use a similar process, and this study uses a third process. The point being that there are apparently many ways to skin the subliminal message cat.

Of course the bottom line is results.

I notice some of my subliminals have worked better than others. One listener wrote to me commenting on one of the subliminal suggestions in my files, proving to me what is 'subliminal' to one person is perceptible to others. The feedback is helpful.

[DKaiser]

I notice some of my subliminals have worked better than others. One listener wrote to me commenting on one of the subliminal suggestions in my files, proving to me what is 'subliminal' to one person is perceptible to others. The feedback is helpful.

Indeed. The best way to deal with subliminals is to make them yourself, by recording a track of subliminals and lowering them in volume below a backing track(or another file entirely) until you can't make sense of them. That way you know they'll be subliminal to you(because all those other jerks don't matter when the file's just for your enjoyment).