When to break the rules

[JackDrago]

We all have a set of rules in our heads about what makes a good hypnotic suggestion. Most of the time the basic rules of hypnosis are pretty reliable, but the sign of a great hypnotist in my book is someone who knows not just what the rules are but when they can be broken to good effect... so, below I list a few common conventions of hypnosis, along with links to files where I managed to make a better file by breaking the rule.

Avoid negative suggestions
The subconscious mind is unreliable about grammatical negatives. Most hypnotists avoid using a phrasing like "you no longer masturbate" out of concern that some subjects just hear "masturbate longer". We have all kinds of ways of getting around the limitation by saying "you have stopped masturbating"...

However, there's two cases where the negative can be used to great effect. Reverse Psychology as in Ericsson's famous "You are Not Being Hypnotized" lecture or the famous "Don't Think of an Elephant" example from Lakoff's book on political manipulation of the same name. Fixed Phrases sometimes the negative is unimportant like in the phrase "you couldn't care less" or "it doesn't really matter much", and sometimes a fixed phrase is so common as to be a unit unto itself like "That would be nice, wouldn't it?"

Avoiding the word "try"
This one is a favorite bugbear of the NLP crowd. The word "try" implies the possibility of failure, so you avoid it in suggestions that you want to work. However, when you are deliberately setting your subject up for failure as in the Failing to Resist method, or in Curse: Frustrating Slow Cummer it can be wickedly effective: "Every time you try to resist going into trance, you fail to resist and go deeper and deeper."

More Hypnotized = Down
This one is more a convention than a hard and fast rule, but almost every hypnotist counts down into trance and up coming out of trance, uses words like "deeper" to describe a more entranced state.

But, of course, there's always good exceptions. Fluffy White Cloud is built on a rising metaphor and the whole direction of trance is reversed, it counts up rather than down and avoids phrasing deepeners in a directional way.

Can you guys think of other rules of hypnosis that you have flaunted successfully in your files?

[Feverdream]

What an interesting question! Thank you for posing it! Also, thank you for your files and for being so thoughtful about your compositions. I hear and respond really well to the way you frame suggestions.

I don't know if it counts as breaking the rules, but I really prefer to avoid certain of the classic tropes that so many take as indispensable when making files. I like inductions that aren't obvious inductions, using embedded commands and subtle suggestions rather than hitting someone over the head with a count down.

I'd also prefer to avoid using awakeners in my files. I have been very inspired by the musical artist Loop Guru. The artist has given thought to the idea that the tracks will be listened to more than once, so that they don't have any jarringly obvious beginning or end that draws attention to itself. Thus, they can be played on repeat in such a way that the listener has no way to know when the track has started over.

I guess that might be a problem for people who need their trance to occur in discrete packets, but I've always been one who goes up and down, weaving in and out of trance over the course of a file... or for that matter, throughout my day. So, with a file that takes 40 minutes to get me deep with multiple countdowns, then 2-5 minutes of suggestions, finishing with an awakener... that pattern doesn't work as well for me as it apparently does for others.

I'm going to have to think about this and come back when I have more things to say about breaking stylistic rules. I want to think and talk a little about a different meaning of rule-breaking, but I'm going to make that its own thread, because I really don't want to derail this one from where it could go. I'm really interested in other responses to this topic.

[OxyFemboi]

Jack, you and I have talked about this often enough. You can anticipate what my rules are.

Avoid future tense
For the subconscious, the time is always NOW. A suggestion written in the future tense is not as effective as the same suggestion phrased in the present tense. The subconscious hears "You will join a gym" and understands that this action can be postponed until "not-now". For the subconscious, the time is always "now", so "later" never arrives. If you rewrite the suggestion as "You join a gym.", it becomes much more imperative. The conscious mind understands about yesterday, today, and tomorrow; the subconscious does not. Any line that contains the word "will" being used as a verb should be rewritten.

If you write a story, all narrative action and description should be in the present tense. When characters speak to each other, use whatever tenses and phrases are natural in the situation.

Avoid negative phrasing
A negative phrase can always be rewritten as "you fail to" do (or want) something. There are other ways to rewrite negations as well.

Give false choices
When you give a choice in trance, limit the choices. "Perhaps" this, or "maybe" that. Regardless of what the listener chooses, he is choosing between the choices you have offered to him. Every choice will lead the listener to behavior you want him to do.

Logical Progressions
First, you say the listener likes or desires something. Then tell him he wants it. Then he needs that thing. Then he is beginning to get obsessed with it. Then he is obsessed with it. Then he is compelled to do an action to obtain this. These suggestions should not immediately follow one another. There should be a few lines separating each suggestion. You can do multiple progressions related to one subject.

[sarnoga]

Jack, Oxy, Fever,

Sorry for reviving such an old post, but I have been mostly away for awhile and came back for a look around and found this of interest. As there are only a few posts in this thread and all by folks who's opinion I respect, it just seemed the right thing to do to pipe up and throw out some random thoughts for consideration as I am apt to do.

I don't know much about rules, I have never really liked rules much. No no no, that is a drastic understatement. For most of my life I have despised and detested rules, while at the same time knowing that some rules you ignore to your peril. I will try to think of an example as I look both ways before crossing the street.

I think there are certain conventions in hypnosis that should be taken more as suggestions than rules. The thing about some conventions is that I never liked them to begin with and try to find something that works better, at least for me. For example, I learned early on that for the most part I didn't care for the standard canned inductions. I found most of them boring and only marginally effective, at least for me.

That left me with the problem of what could I do that I would find more pleasing and that would be at least as effective or hopefully more effective. After all, before I found this site I knew hypnosis from nothing. So what was I to do.

I began by studying all the files I could find on this site. At the time they were mostly files by EMG, Cardigan, MajorPixel and a few others. In case you didn't know, Cardigan is actually a professional trained hypnotist. I looked at what I could find, determined what worked best for me, how that was different from what didn't work well for me. Then I started trying things, trying to make files of my own. I started reading things about hypnosis, other peoples thoughts, opinions, what they had learned. Sure, some presented "rules" but what was more important than the "rules" was the reasoning behind the "rules"

My thinking is, that is isn't so important to know when not follow the rules, it is important to know when you should follow the rules. That may sound like the same thing, but it really isn't. At least not to me. The difference is whether or not you use the rules as a default from which you depart occasionally or take as a default postion of doing what seems right under the circumstances but understanding the conventions and knowing when you should give in and follow them to keep from fucking up something.

So, I studied what was available. Studied a fair amount of the written material that could be found. As much as I could I tried to create in myself a more or less instinctual understanding of how it all worked. You see, rules don't often work well for me. It requires keeping things in memory in a way I am not comfortable with. Rules and instinct often clash, perhaps not in the objective desired or in the result achieved, but in the way they operate. But if you have a good enough understanding of how the rules work and why they are there, I think it can be adapted into one's instinctual actions and behavior.

Once I had somewhat of an instinctual understanding of how things worked I started trying things. I tried things to see it it worked and to see how it worked, expanded on what worked and tried to correct what didn't. As I continued, I think I developed a style of my own, or at least I like to think that at a minimum I developed a style on which I had made my own mark. I didn't despise the things that others had done that worked, rather I valued originality over regurgitation. Not everything i did was original, I certainly tried to build on that which had already been done but I sought out ways to do it differently, with a new twist.

Was I successful, I don't know, you be the judge. You three are, I think, familiar at least to some degree with some of my files. Did I follow the rules, did I break the rules, was I effective. Again, I don't know, you tell me. If I followed the rules or broke the rules I did so sometimes unconsciously, sometimes instinctively. I did what I did, and do what I do and then before I send it off for consumption by the sometimes unknowing general audience, I would examine it closely to see if it seemed good. Yes, I would consider the rules after the fact, at least those I could remember. Not so much consciously as I was following them or breaking them, but after the fact. After my script was complete I would go over it one last time to see if I could identify any of the "rules" I had broken. If I could I would take a good long look to try to determine if I needed to correct anything or should leave it the way it was.

The end result, who am I to judge. I know what I like, I know what I don't like, I know if something works for me, or if it doesn't. I know if it pleases me or not. Beyond that, all I can say for sure is I had a lot of fun doing it. When someone criticized some of my work I would try to determine if they were correct, if it was just a matter of opinion or taste, or perhaps it was simply that they lacked understanding. I encountered each type of criticism and I hope my files were the better for it.

So, even now it is hard for me to evaluate the way some of you view rules and breaking the rules. Do my files reflect the thoughts of a rule follower, a rule breaker, or just an indifference to the rules, or perhaps none of those. I know what I think. I know what I like to tell myself. What I don't know is if either what I think or what I tell myself accurately reflects the truth of the matter. I do what I do, and sometimes it works better than other times.

Any thoughts?

Regards, Sarnoga

[OxyFemboi]

Sarnoga,

I have always enjoyed your files. You are one of the people I studied to get a handle on how to phrase hypnosis suggestions properly. What I got from reading books and articles on hypnosis as well as studying the early users/hypnotists on WMM. Like you, I was an early user of the WMM site. I used Ricardo when I first signed on around the turn of the millennium when the chat was on Yahoo Groups.I had to quit shortly after the new Forums were started to take care of Mom 24/7. When I signed on, my old email accounts had been died and buried, so I made new ones and signed on to WMM under a new name, Oxdude. I later changed it to OxyFemboi due to the success of ViVe’s Feminine Conditioning file. (I have transitioned to female but am not planning on further changes in my hypnosis nom de plume.

My “rules” are my guidelines for me. I do not expect everyone else to follow them. If people ask, I tell them that I use these guidelines to construct my files. These rules/guidelines are how effective suggestions are written that my subconscious likes to follow. Some of my rules have been suggested by research. (The subconscious does have a hard time processing negative phrasing. So why use it?) Some are “common sense”. (Compound-complex sentences are hard to follow. So keep everything simple. It doesn’t need to be “See Dick. See Dick run.” simple but don’t have a sentence longer than two lines long.)

I have gotten some emails and comments on how effectively my files have been for some people. It’s great to get praise like that. I still plan to learn more and hopefully improve my files until I die.

The one thing I have discovered since I wrote the previous contribution is that the best suggestions have a natural rhythm. Think of “prose poem” if you need a reference word for a Google search. Yes, it’s extremely hard to do well. Nevertheless, some people do it naturally. It doesn’t need to rhyme, just have a natural rhythm.

Peace. Love. Unity. Respect.

OxyFemboi

[JackDrago]

@sarnoga it's great to see you back on the site! Please make and post new files.

You were a HUGE influence on my hypnotic techniques. Literally everything I ever did as a multi channel confusion file exists because I analyzed Adderall Boys. I also reversed some of the mechanics of Teeny Weenie for my Jockstrap Penis Growth file; so ironically you may have indirectly added some inches of dick to the world second hand.

As for the topic of the thread... I honestly don't put much conscious thought into it anymore. I've gotten so practiced that I sit down to write a script and it falls out fully formed.

[sarnoga]

Thank you both for the quick replies.
It pleases me that my work has been able to contribute beyond just the files I created by helping others perfect the craft.

Jack,

If I have indirectly added some inches of dick to the world second hand that is fine by me. I may have created the Teeny Weenie file but by no means am I against people using hypnosis to achieve other goals. What a dull world it would be if everyone wanted and sought out the same thing. My guess is, though, that at worst, or best, depending on perspective, my slight and indirect contribution to Jockstrap Penis Growth is more than offset by the inches lost from those listening to Teeny Weenie.

I am hoping to make some new files if I can get back into the swing of it and come up with some good ideas. I know everybody has an idea for a file they want. You wouldn't know it from any post I might have made on how I go about making files. While it is true I put a lot of work into creating files to get them to come out the way I want them, the really tricky part, is not in the making of the file it is in coming up with just the right idea for a file.

Oxy,

When I was making files regularly, one thing I was always the most interested in was getting feedback on my files. It wasn't so much that I felt I needed approval, or or praise, or even reassurance that I was making good files. What I was after was just confirmation that there was someone out there enjoying my files and they were making somebody happy.

Great to hear from you both.

Regards, Sarnoga

[OxyFemboi]

Sarongs,

When I receive a comment or email from someone who uses a file I created, it makes me happy to think that something I made has helped increase the happiness in the world. That’s my true reward for all the work I put into my files.

The file that has garnered the most appreciation is my first file. Canine Penis began from frustration. The two versions on WMM were horrid. One version was so badly done that I literally ripped my headphones off, threw them across the room, and cried. Then I found the script. I downloaded it, read it, thought “ I can improve this”, and started rewriting it. I rewrote it to my satisfaction, and looked for a decent TTS program on the web so I could record this for my use. (I still do not have a decent recording set-up; I’m working on remedying that.) I did some more rewriting. I was eventually satisfied and asked Jack for his opinion. He said, “Post it.”

Honestly, I had never thought about that. This was solely for my own use. After some thought, I posted it.

I have since rewritten Canine Penis, posted that, and added another version that also grew your penis as well as changing it to the form of a canine penis. (I have one enthusiastic email for which it worked magnificently. When I’m down, I re-read that email.)

I’m really proud of Canine Penis Two and Canine Penis Two Plus. (The “Plus” is the penis growth suggestions I added.)

That was how I started writing files: one was so bad and I wanted it so much that I was driven to rewrite the script and make it for myself.

[sarnoga]

That is not a lot different from why I started making files. I couldn't find any files that were just want I wanted so decided I might try making one myself. Then I started making files to learn how to do it so that I could eventually make the files I wanted.