Binaural

[dionysus]

what exactly does a binaural do and how does it work?

[loony28]

what exactly does a binaural do and how does it work?

A binaural is two seperate tones slightly different from each other. When your brain hears these seperate tones it "hears" the difference between them. This makes it possible for the brain to "hear" tones that are too low for the human ear to pick up. Binaurals are used in brainwave entrainment. Your brain will naturally sync itself to various stimulus, mostly sight and sound. For example, your computer monitor is set to refresh at a certain rate. After a while of staring at your computer your brainwaves will sync to your monitor's refresh rate. The same with sound, your brainwaves will eventually sync to the frequency of the sound. This can be useful in hypnosis or anything else.

[bdbu]

hate to burst anyone's bubble but binaurals are a load of crap and do not work. its all placebo really.

[Wildsprite]

hate to burst anyone's bubble but binaurals are a load of crap and do not work. its all placebo really.

is that so, where is your proof?

[loony28]

hate to burst anyone's bubble but binaurals are a load of crap and do not work. its all placebo really.

So what if it's a placebo? As long as it works I don't think anyone cares. I think there is research on this someplace that proves that the brainwaves do sync up with certain stimuli.

[MN_FriendlyGuy]

hate to burst anyone's bubble but binaurals are a load of crap and do not work. its all placebo really.

The phenomenon of binaural beats is fact, bdbu. It was a curiosity when it was discovered in 1839.

Our brains constantly evaluate the sounds we hear... using life-experience to detect patterns and discover sense within chaos. Among the patterns our brains evaluate: the origin of a sound... Where is it coming from?

The Doppler effect is a good example of our brains evaluating for a sound's origin. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doppler_effect). The sound of a siren on a emergency vehicle has constant pitch. But as that vehicle moves past you, the pitch changes... starting out high, sliding downward as it passes, and then becoming even lower as the vehicle moves further away.

Binaural beats are also an auditory hallucination that occurs when our brains try place where a sound originated. When two tones are close enough in pitch, the brain doesn't hear them as two distinct sounds. Instead, it tries to interpret what it's hearing as a single sound that arrived at both ears. Since the two tones are at a different pitch, the compression and expansion of air from the sound waves arrives at different times at each ear.

You can learn more about the science behind binaural beats by following this link and reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_beat.

Even better - at the bottom of the article, there are examples you can listen to - with headphones of course.

[Mino]

I think binurals are a placebo but they're not doing any harm and they help me relax although there are a few which just give me a headache. Although I've seen on a few different forums that about half of the people experience the intended affects and the other half just get a headache or something.

[bdbu]

I know all about binaurals and the theory behind them. wut im sayin is that it doesnt work like hippies think it does. its all a placebo. if they truly workede, it work for every person on the planet because there are no variables that would make it not work.

[loony28]

I know all about binaurals and the theory behind them. wut im sayin is that it doesnt work like hippies think it does. its all a placebo. if they truly workede, it work for every person on the planet because there are no variables that would make it not work.

Are you calling all of us hippies? There are variables that would make a difference to binuarals working. The first of course is your headphones. If your headphones aren't working properly then the binuarals won't work. the second is the volume your listening to them at. The third is that everyone's brain is different and some tones will take longer to work.

[Blink]

hate to burst anyone's bubble but binaurals are a load of crap and do not work. its all placebo really.

Placebos work. It's well known in drug studies that a (usually significant) number of people who take a placebo will have effects, both beneficial and adverse. Have a look at the definition of placebo effect to see if that helps clear things up.

If, by "its all placebo really," you mean it's all placebo... then I think you're developing some good Buddhist insight.

Anyone know what the active ingredient in trance is?

-- Blink
There's no such thing as trance.

[Wildsprite]

we know it does something, placebo? well maybe but half the time people don't know what they are supposed to effect, so I don't think thats entirely true, as for what the hippies think it does or is supposed to do....hmmm half of the hippies are either stoned or tripping on something anyway so almost anything will effect them in ways it wont even bother a sober person, so I guess the real question is what do they actually do? I'm sure its something even if its mild, perhaps they just relax or annoy people? even if thats all they do thats not a placebo its something

[bdbu]

there is a difference between a medical placebo effect and wuts goin on with binaurals. with binaurals, ppl rly wanty to feel the desired effect so they pretend like they are feeling it when really the binaural is doing nothing. any effects of brain entrainment r all hypothetical and if someone was somehow given a binaural beat without them knowing it wouldnt affect them at all because it doesnt actually work.

[BobbyS]

The whole point of the placebo effect is that is an actual tangible effect derived from something that doesn't actually do anything. It's your expectations of what something's supposed to do that alters it.

Alcohol's a good example - ply someone with alcohol-free beer all night and there's a chance they'll get pissed - purely because of what they're expecting. Their intoxication is a placebo effect. It's an expected change or effect that's come about from something that doesn't do what they think it does.

So in answer to your point, WildSprite it doesn't matter WHAT the placebo effect does behaviourally - so long as the thing behind it all isn't genuine. If the "tool" does something - anything - without the "tool" actually physically doing what the subject thinks its meant to then it is a placebo.

[BobbyS]

there is a difference between a medical placebo effect and wuts goin on with binaurals. with binaurals, ppl rly wanty to feel the desired effect so they pretend like they are feeling it when really the binaural is doing nothing. any effects of brain entrainment r all hypothetical and if someone was somehow given a binaural beat without them knowing it wouldnt affect them at all because it doesnt actually work.

Tbh whether binaurals work is neither here nor there in this argument. If someone experiences changes from binaurals that don't do anything, it's a placebo effect. Never mind whether other people think binaurals work or not - if someone expects binaurals to work and they do, if it turns out those binaurals weren't actually doing anything then it was a placebo effect.

[bdbu]

ok so weve pretty much settled that binaurals are a placebo.

so why not just sit in a chair and pretend ur being put under since its the same damn thing?

Hrobjartsson and Götzsche published a study in 2001 and a follow-up study in 2004 questioning the nature of the placebo effect. (Hrobjartsson 2001, Hrobjartsson 2004) They performed two meta-analyses involving 156 clinical trials in which an experimental drug or treatment protocol was compared to a placebo group and an untreated group, and specifically asked whether the placebo group improved compared to the untreated group. Hrobjartsson and Götzsche found that in studies with a binary outcome, meaning patients were classified as improved or not improved, the placebo group had no statistically significant improvement over the no-treatment group. Similarly, there was no significant placebo effect in studies in which objective outcomes (such as blood pressure) were measured by an independent observer. The placebo effect could only be documented in studies in which the outcomes (improvement or failure to improve) were reported by the subjects themselves. The authors concluded that the placebo effect does not have "powerful clinical effects," (objective effects) and that patient-reported improvements (subjective effects) in pain were small and could not be clearly distinguished from bias.

These results suggest that the placebo effect is largely subjective. This would help explain why the placebo effect is easiest to demonstrate in conditions where subjective factors are very prominent or significant parts of the problem. Some of these conditions are headache, stomachache, asthma, allergy, tension, and the experience of pain, which is often a significant part of many mild and serious illnesses.

[Wildsprite]

ok so weve pretty much settled that binaurals are a placebo.

so why not just sit in a chair and pretend ur being put under since its the same damn thing?

actually we have settled nothing, and you have present nothing to back up your argument, all you have said is they are a load of crap and a placebo, yet you give no proof

[bdbu]

no proof that im wrong. my proof is personal experience and experiences of friends and ppl i know.

[loony28]

ok so weve pretty much settled that binaurals are a placebo.

so why not just sit in a chair and pretend ur being put under since its the same damn thing?

Hrobjartsson and Götzsche published a study in 2001 and a follow-up study in 2004 questioning the nature of the placebo effect. (Hrobjartsson 2001, Hrobjartsson 2004) They performed two meta-analyses involving 156 clinical trials in which an experimental drug or treatment protocol was compared to a placebo group and an untreated group, and specifically asked whether the placebo group improved compared to the untreated group. Hrobjartsson and Götzsche found that in studies with a binary outcome, meaning patients were classified as improved or not improved, the placebo group had no statistically significant improvement over the no-treatment group. Similarly, there was no significant placebo effect in studies in which objective outcomes (such as blood pressure) were measured by an independent observer. The placebo effect could only be documented in studies in which the outcomes (improvement or failure to improve) were reported by the subjects themselves. The authors concluded that the placebo effect does not have "powerful clinical effects," (objective effects) and that patient-reported improvements (subjective effects) in pain were small and could not be clearly distinguished from bias.

These results suggest that the placebo effect is largely subjective. This would help explain why the placebo effect is easiest to demonstrate in conditions where subjective factors are very prominent or significant parts of the problem. Some of these conditions are headache, stomachache, asthma, allergy, tension, and the experience of pain, which is often a significant part of many mild and serious illnesses.

So you're saying that binaurals don't work. I've heard of research on this where they hooked up volunteers to an EEG and used binaurals on them. You know what the EEG showed? It showed that the subjects brainwaves did change to match the binaural. Now whether this is a placebo effect or will could be debated. From my point of view, it's not a placebo effect.

[bdbu]

So you're saying that binaurals don't work. I've heard of research on this where they hooked up volunteers to an EEG and used binaurals on them. You know what the EEG showed? It showed that the subjects brainwaves did change to match the binaural. Now whether this is a placebo effect or will could be debated. From my point of view, it's not a placebo effect.

" o well i heard about this one study" is a pretty shaky response bro.

[busboy]

So you're saying that binaurals don't work. I've heard of research on this where they hooked up volunteers to an EEG and used binaurals on them. You know what the EEG showed? It showed that the subjects brainwaves did change to match the binaural. Now whether this is a placebo effect or will could be debated. From my point of view, it's not a placebo effect.

" o well i heard about this one study" is a pretty shaky response bro.

him citing a study is slightly more credible than "friends and people I know". Can you guess which is slightly less subjective?

[dionysus]

if it works or not, what harm does it do to listen to it? and everyone's brain acts similar to a computer, albeit, a SUPERcomputer. each brain has its own unique "encryption" code. if it isn't satisfied, it can't be accessed. thats a good metaphore to how the pleasure center works. and by the way, i am a hippie, a tree-huggin'/hill-humpin' hippie! all i need now is the marijuana and i would be complete! lol

[bdbu]

So you're saying that binaurals don't work. I've heard of research on this where they hooked up volunteers to an EEG and used binaurals on them. You know what the EEG showed? It showed that the subjects brainwaves did change to match the binaural. Now whether this is a placebo effect or will could be debated. From my point of view, it's not a placebo effect.

" o well i heard about this one study" is a pretty shaky response bro.

him citing a study is slightly more credible than "friends and people I know". Can you guess which is slightly less subjective?

um i actually DID cite a study whereas he just pulled something out of his ass. learn 2 read.

[BobbyS]

ok so weve pretty much settled that binaurals are a placebo.

so why not just sit in a chair and pretend ur being put under since its the same damn thing?

Because if you want binaurals to make you horny or think you're a dog, then a pacebo effect WILL make you horny or think you're a dog. Whereas pretending is just pretending.

I don't argue with that study - I'm quite sure if it was a physical change you're after then the placebo effect would be useless.

In behavioural terms however, a placebo effect wouldn't be a placebo effect if it didn't alter your behaviour in the way you thought it would.

[loony28]

So you're saying that binaurals don't work. I've heard of research on this where they hooked up volunteers to an EEG and used binaurals on them. You know what the EEG showed? It showed that the subjects brainwaves did change to match the binaural. Now whether this is a placebo effect or will could be debated. From my point of view, it's not a placebo effect.

" o well i heard about this one study" is a pretty shaky response bro.

him citing a study is slightly more credible than "friends and people I know". Can you guess which is slightly less subjective?

um i actually DID cite a study whereas he just pulled something out of his ass. learn 2 read.

That was a study on the placebo effect that you quoted. Yes, I did read what you posted. I can't remember where I heard the study of the binaural beats but I know I heard it somewhere. I might do a google search for it or you can do it yourself.

[dionysus]

wow... you guys are pretty touchy about this. it really doesn't matter wheater or not it works to me, just what the hell its point is.

[busboy]

looney,
I think the "learn 2 read cuz UR stoopid-head" snotty attitude was a weak shot at me, not you.

@bdbu:
lessee . . . you claim binaurals are all placebo because of your prsonal experience and the comments of people you know (post 2/3/08@6:29am). Demonstrating a complete lack of logic, you imply your opinion, then aparently assert that since your opinion hasn't been irrefutably disproven, it must be true.
Looney comments that s/he has seen research implying actual effect, which would tend to undercut your opinion (blessedly all-knowing though it may be) (post 2/3/08 @6:40).
You respond that "I heard information from a study" is a "shaky response" to refute the far more authorative position of "that's what I think and so do my buddies." (post 2/3/08@7:19).
I comment that between someone refering to a study (cut-and-paste quoted or not) and someone going on opinion (y'know . . . something that's just in their head . . . they just beleive it so it must be real . . . sound like anything mentioned in this thread?) it sounds like your position that binaurals are all placebo and certainly "don't work like the hippies think" (whatever the heck that means) is the less supported (post 2/3/08, 7:29).
You suggest I haven't been reading the thread because you cited a study discussing the existence of placebo effects in a pharmaceutical trial . . . something that bears no impact on the discussion of whether binaurals are placebos. (2/3/08@9:03).
. . . nope. I read it right. You're jumping all over the place -- and apparently have truoble distinguishing the difference between the question of whether binaurals are nothing more than placebo effects and the question of whether the placebo effect is subjective or objective (in pharmaceutical trial no less). Mabye that comes from never having learned to read properly. Well, that's my opinion at least, based on my experience . . . I guess I'm right until you can scientifically prove I wrong, eh?
I recognize that this site caters strongly to the kink audience, but is there any particular reason you've got such a large attitude stick lodged in your rectum about this?

[bdbu]

i stopped reading when u continued to assert that "ive heard of a study somewhere" is a valid argument.

[bdbu]

omg guys guess wut i found a study that says im rite. look now im credible woot. dont ask me about the study tho cuz i dun remember where it is.

[baby_jessica75]

hate to intrude but figured someone might appreciate these.

[url]http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:mumW-ZlcK7UJ:www.cosmicegg.org/binaural%2520beat.pdf+binaural+beats+scientific&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=11&gl=us[/url]
[url]http://www.centerpointe.com/about/articles_research.php[/url]

[busboy]

@babyjessica:
nice finds, and good reads.

[Mino]

Can we please make a rule to only speak in full words and sentences rather than letters and numbers?

[Wildsprite]

i stopped reading when u continued to assert that "ive heard of a study somewhere" is a valid argument.

I don't know, you don't show much credibility with the fact that you can't seem to help but not actually spell out full words and you have to be anal about the whole thing

your trying to prove your point, yet you have yet to prove anything, I say either prove it or drop it, I think the moderators would agree with me on this

[MN_FriendlyGuy]

wow... you guys are pretty touchy about this. it really doesn't matter wheater or not it works to me, just what the hell its point is.

dionysus, this response is specifically for you.

The opinions of others seem to have caused your question to become sidetracked and forgotten.

Would you like to try for yourself?

You've asked what the point is. In hypnosis, a hypnotist's words invite you to relax. Binaural beats do the same thing - but without words. The tones invite your mind to relax. And combining the two things (hypnosis induction & binaural beats) into a single recording is a double invitation.

When you experience something for yourself, it lets you make up your own mind. If you're interested, I'm offering to send a 20-minute binaural beat recording (mp3).

The recording contains no music and no sound effects. There are no words and no subliminal messages. It's a simple, quiet set of tones.

Touchy about this? Grinning here! It's a pleasure to throw down the gauntlet to a reader who has expressed skepticism. bdbu can bring nothing to the table but words of skepticism. I can do more than that with 6 simple tones.

dionysus, in addition to experiencing binaural beats, you have an opportunity to publicly tell about it.

[AFA]

Judging by this trend I would say binaurals are like salt. It can greatly improve something, but if the person doesn’t like it all it will do is raise there blood pressure.

From what I have read binaurals are more of assist than a way to actually enter hypnosis. They allow the brain to enter different states that it may or may not be more susceptible to hypnotic suggestions. The mind can be in any state and still not go under hypnosis.

I can honestly say from my own experience that they do work at changing my state of mind to an extent, but as for weather they have made it any easier to go into trance I can’t say.

[bdbu]

no ne here rly seems to care about the science behind binaurals which makes them differ hugely from hypnosis. binaurals either work on everybody or work on nobody because of the science behind them. therefore if it doesnt work on any one person, it doesnt work on anyone and those who claim they do r kidding themselves.

[Wildsprite]

no ne here rly seems to care about the science behind binaurals which makes them differ hugely from hypnosis. binaurals either work on everybody or work on nobody because of the science behind them. therefore if it doesnt work on any one person, it doesnt work on anyone and those who claim they do r kidding themselves.

where to you get this garbage from? you still present no proof of what you say you quoted something yet you dont show a source

[EMG]

By that argument you could say the same about hypnosis because I can PROMISE you it doesn't work the same on everybody. Hypnosis, psychology, even pshchiatry can be argued to be inexact sciences. The problem with all of them is that they deal with the human mind and if you ask anyone, no 2 minds work exactly the same. I like chocolate, some people don't. Some people respond WONDERFULLY to my inductions, others never go under and find my voice annoying. Things like binaurals are subjective, the question should really be whether they deepen trance in the people for whom they work and whether or not that trance becomes deeper even if the person has NO idea what the binaural is there for. If the answer is yes then they are effective. If it's no then they are merely another tool to aid in trance. I don't have any numbers to back either argument. But "no they don't work" and "yes they do work" are just arguments and neither holds more weight than the other until they have been studied(which I am sure someone has, just not me).

no ne here rly seems to care about the science behind binaurals which makes them differ hugely from hypnosis. binaurals either work on everybody or work on nobody because of the science behind them. therefore if it doesnt work on any one person, it doesnt work on anyone and those who claim they do r kidding themselves.

[bdbu]

hypnosis totally depends on your personal thoughts which differ between people obviously, binaural beats dont. the theory behind it says that if ur brain here's this frequency for this amount of time, it will start to process that frequency itself. how the hell could that be so different between people? its basic biology, we all have the same parts. either it works or it doesnt.

[testry]

hypnosis totally depends on your personal thoughts which differ between people obviously, binaural beats dont. the theory behind it says that if ur brain here's this frequency for this amount of time, it will start to process that frequency itself. how the hell could that be so different between people? its basic biology, we all have the same parts. either it works or it doesnt.

I think it is not the frequency of binaural beats (alpha is always 7-13hz for example or I don't remember, about 70/min) and has the same effect for everyone: a brain resonance pushing you into the alpha state (even not noticeable sometimes). But its just the suggestions that can or can not be accepted by the subconscious.

[BobbyS]

hypnosis totally depends on your personal thoughts which differ between people obviously, binaural beats dont. the theory behind it says that if ur brain here's this frequency for this amount of time, it will start to process that frequency itself. how the hell could that be so different between people? its basic biology, we all have the same parts. either it works or it doesnt.

Precisely - if we hear this frequency, the brain will start to process the frequency. Who says it will take everyone's brain that long to process a frequency? People are physiologically different. While different states (theta state etc) are set in stone, ergo can't be different between people due to their very nature, I don't see any reason to rule out physiological differences between people.

I'll be the first to ask people to get a sense of perspective when claiming it's possible to navigate parallel worlds (check the thread in Idle Chatter - I wish to God I was making this up) and other such nonsense, but it seems to me you're dismissing basic variables out of hand here.

[Aaden]

The use of the term "binaural" on this site has bothered me for quite some time.

The *real* definition of a binaural recording is one that was recorded using a binaural microphone rig. A binaural rig is TWO microphones placed the same distance apart as the human ears, so that the recording is created with the left/right channels recorded as the ear is meant to hear them.

Complex binaural rigs include fake human heads complete with shoulders so induce "shoulder bouncing" which is how the human ear recognizes a sound that comes from behind us.

The common usage of the term "binaural" on this site is entirely incorrect.

[MN_FriendlyGuy]

Welcome to WarpMyMind (WMM), Aaden. Your first posting reveals that you're articulate and that you prefer facts to be straightforward.

For the benefit of other readers, it's a pleasure to confirm you're right about the definition of binaural recordings.

And with this response, I'm bringing new (additional) information to the discussion.

A cheetah
- IS NOT
a chimpanzee

They're both mammals.
Their names both begin with the letters 'ch'.
And yet they're different.

A binaural recording
- IS NOT
a binaural beat

Both things are related to sound.
They both start with the word 'binaural'.
And yet they're different.

Yes, this site should be using the phrase "binaural beats" to identify files supplemented with sound waves/tones (hertz) to invite relaxation in a secondary way. Most members are willing to accept the shortened (slang) usage.

If you're interested in learning about binbeats, or curious about experiencing the phenomenon, here's a link directly to wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_beats. Near the bottom of the article, there's an "Example" section that has mp3s.