conflicting views

[spudamore]

i know there are many conflicting views within the hypnotherapy field. just one to do with habits and such, a little thing i have noticed, i am a bit of a bandler fan, and people that have studied under him, this line of hypnosis/nlp, alot of the belief is that you can put a stop to any habit without it reforming it into something else, eg smoke tastes like (worst food you ever had) ect... time distortion will smoking, ect...,

but in another aspect i tend to see a trend within australia, that if you have unresolved issues with that habit it will reform into another psychological disorder? it just seems that this line of thinking is more to do with psychology rather than hypnosis

has there been any studies or such that conforms with the latter?

just with some peoples experience around me, aversion therapy and resolving the unresolved haven't worked with smoking and other habits.

basically what i am saying is it ethical, to take ones "free will" away to help the subject to become a healthier/better person? i know this is a major part of hypnotherapy to not to take away "free will" and teach it in the majority of hypnotherapy classes, does it differ around the world?

[User517]

As far as I know, it's alot easier to redirect a persons impulses or energies toward another thing than to try and stop them. The reason why something like smoking might manifest itself in another way after treatment is because these energies were not directed toward anything, or it was directed toward something which did not offer similar feelings.

Free will doesn't exist as we like to think it does. We are brainwashed to believe that we should all have jobs and earn money to trade for goods, and to decide which goods are better for us based on their packaging and advertisements. From the first day we draw breath we have people telling us how we should live our lives. Free will really only applies in those gaps between socialized actions, where we can make those important decisions; paper or plastic. Agree or disagree, but within that context, how is hypnosis which aims to improve someone's life at the cost of some minor freedom any different?

[spudamore]

hence the quotation marks : :D
thanks for the comment
then why do hypno schools teach the "free will" ethic?

[Alien4420]

just with some peoples experience around me, aversion therapy and resolving the unresolved haven't worked with smoking and other habits.

basically what i am saying is it ethical, to take ones "free will" away to help the subject to become a healthier/better person? i know this is a major part of hypnotherapy to not to take away "free will" and teach it in the majority of hypnotherapy classes, does it differ around the world?

As a pretty good hypnotic subject who failed to stop smoking through hypnotherapy and then stopped easily using nicotine replacement products, I tend to think that the reason these therapies fail in the case of smoking is pharmacological/physiological rather than psychological. We now know a lot more about the physiology of addiction than we used to, and among the things we know is that in some people but not in others smoking produces massive changes in the brain, e.g., the upregulation of receptors, that can take years to subside, and that the differences are based on genetics, prenatal exposure to nicotine, age of smoking initiation, possibly even the newly-discovered Lamarckian changes in gene expression, which mean that a father's or even an earlier antecedent's behavior can actually affect the gene expression of offspring. And I think at one point, these physiological factors tended to be ascribed to psychodynamics, e.g., to the well-known tendency of obsessive-compulsive neurotics to sublimate, simply because we didn't understand the physiology, and that some people haven't caught up. Which is to say that someone who stops smoking through aversion therapy and substitutes another habit is probably trying to restore homeostasis by boosting dopamine levels, etc. -- using pharmacological means to address a physiological problem rather than trying to protect themselves from the expression of a repressed instinct.

[whatthe75]

alot of the belief is that you can put a stop to any habit without it reforming it into something else, eg smoke tastes like (worst food you ever had) ect... time distortion will smoking, ect...,

This is one way i believe the treatment of smoking does not work.It has negative effects.Bandler himself has talked of ways he has treated smokers.He first started by anchoring smoking to the bad food etc but soon worked out that then this person could not go anywhere near smokers because they found them disgusting and it then also made them quite a righteous anti smoking campaigner etc etc.The other methods including time distortion and the one where he made the person forget they had ever smoked soon caused other problems like the ones mentioned.The technique he now uses and swears by ( myself included - i have used it on many clients) is to remove the addiction. You have to remove the craving in the person to smoke at the unconcious level, otherwise it may come out in other places.I have succesfully used the combinations of a few NLP techniques to rid these cravings and enabled people to be around smokers comfortably and without any other side effects(behaviours showing up in different forms).As long as all secondary gains are accounted for in the person the cravings can be removed very quickly.

[whatthe75]

alot of the belief is that you can put a stop to any habit without it reforming it into something else, eg smoke tastes like (worst food you ever had) ect... time distortion will smoking, ect...,

This is one way i believe the treatment of smoking does not work.It has negative effects.Bandler himself has talked of ways he has treated smokers.He first started by anchoring smoking to the bad food etc but soon worked out that then this person could not go anywhere near smokers because they found them disgusting and it then also made them quite a righteous anti smoking campaigner etc etc.The other methods including time distortion and the one where he made the person forget they had ever smoked soon caused other problems like the ones mentioned.The technique he now uses and swears by ( myself included - i have used it on many clients) is to remove the addiction. You have to remove the craving in the person to smoke at the unconcious level, otherwise it may come out in other places.I have succesfully used the combinations of a few NLP techniques to rid these cravings and enabled people to be around smokers comfortably and without any other side effects(behaviours showing up in different forms).As long as all secondary gains are accounted for in the person the cravings can be removed very quickly.

[User517]

hence the quotation marks : :D
thanks for the comment
then why do hypno schools teach the "free will" ethic?

Probably because there is a fairly large gray area there. It's hard to really say what is and is not being done for the best interests of the subject. By teaching that free will should be maintained, you have people who are less likely to use hypnosis as a means of subjugation, enslavement, or worse.

Additionally, the role of the hypnotherapist is to help solve the problems that the subject asks (sometimes by proxy) to be helped. By this exchange, the hypnotherapist is only taking away those freedoms that the subject has elected to give up, with the understanding of how it will help solve their problem. Verses a more objectionable model where the hypnotherapist decides that there is a problem with someone, and decides to change it without their knowledgeable consent.

[spudamore]

The technique he now uses and swears by ( myself included - i have used it on many clients) is to remove the addiction. You have to remove the craving in the person to smoke at the unconcious level, otherwise it may come out in other places.I have succesfully used the combinations of a few NLP techniques to rid these cravings and enabled people to be around smokers comfortably and without any other side effects(behaviours showing up in different forms).As long as all secondary gains are accounted for in the person the cravings can be removed very quickly.

is that where he creates an awesome feeling and replaces it with the addiction or behaviour?

thanks for the info guys

[whatthe75]

No.

As i said it is a combination of techniques.

1- install a stop yourself behaviour first ( eg take a time when you stop yourself doing something because you know its wrong ) and push the smoking thoughts into that.So that you can stop yourself if the desire returns.

2 - then with the addiction part - you go through until you find out the trigger that makes you want to smoke.Then install a new behaviour ( seeing everyone around you smoke and watching them enjoy it and enjoying knowing you dont need to smoke.) when this trigger happens replacing the old desire.This can be done with just a swish pattern - but i like to make sure with the combination of using a swish and also some time line installation to cement it.

These two techniques is enough to stop someone smoking,but i also like to add some more ( like belief change and motivation changes ) to really make sure.