Feedback from experienced hypnotists

[You_Robot]

Hello everyone!

Long time lurker, almost first time poster.
After reading a lot about hypnosis for years now, I have finally managed to hypnotize my first subject. Or so I think...

I would like to describe how things happened and would appreciate feedback from experienced hypnotists.
(Sorry, rather long post)

He wants to 'learn to eat vegetables' (no allergies, just general dislike for no known reason) and after I mentioned hypnosis, he was all in for a test run.

We tried last Tuesday evening and the setup was as follows: He was sitting on the couch in his living room, facing the tv on which a DVD with concentric yellow and blue rings, expanding over time, was showing. Lights were dimmed.

The induction was him looking at the center of the screen, not blinking, counting two up, one down (1, 3, 2, 4, 3, 5, 4, 6, ...) and me giving suggestions of heavy eyelids, burning sensation, losing focus and general relaxation.
After about 5 minutes of fluttering eyelids and tears forming (burning sensation in the eyes, he told later), I told him to close his eyes, which he did.

The deepening was done suggesting heaviness, starting at the feet, moving up the whole body.
Afterwards, he should imagine walking down a stair with 10 steps, me counting from 10 to 1.
At the bottom of the stairs, there should be a door. Behind this door, there was a bed for his conscious mind.

The suggestions for eating vegetables were positive affirmations that vegetables were tasty, feeling proud of managing to change, wanting to try eating vegetables etc.

Waking up was done counting from 1 to 10, taking away the feeling of heaviness and suggesting freshness.

The session took about 15-20 minutes.

Discussion:

After finishing, we discussed what he thought about the experience. He told me that he heard me during the whole session.
He would have liked to look at the rings for somewhat longer, but closed his eyes anyway when I told him to.
He managed to visualize the stairs and the bed even better. Intersting: when he saw himself in bed, there was a small person standing next to the bed, listening to me, but with an attitude of stubborness. Maybe like a child, hearing but 'knowing better'.
When I woke him up, he felt like starting to be hypnotized.
In general he thinks that it might work when we keep on doing this.

My opinion is: It was not perfect but I think some suggestions still might already stick with him.

We are definitely doing another (mabe several) session(s), starting next week.

Thanks for reading this far :D

Opinions?

[davelowe1977]

I'm not an expert in hypnotism, but from what you have described, it sounds like a very positive first attempt.

I suggest that you study your own comments in your discussion. Generally what the subject gives in feedback should be built upon. For example, you state that the subject did not like the burning sensation and wanted to stare at the spirals for longer. You should perhaps acknowledge this and take particular care to ask him at various stages what he is feeling and whether he wants to do x or y rather than being overly prescriptive, particularly during the induction.

The 'stubborn child' attitude may denote a problem with your authority, but you could explore this by means of age regression and maybe by resorting to the kind of argumentative techniques that parents use with children.

I suppose its a question of experimentation and improvement. Keep us all informed - fascinating.

[MN_FriendlyGuy]

...I would like to describe how things happened and would appreciate feedback from experienced hypnotists.

My opinion is: It was not perfect but I think some suggestions still might already stick with him.

We are definitely doing another (mabe several) session(s), starting next week.

Opinions?

Nicely done, You_Robot. You used good technique to form trance and then give direct suggestions.

When you're ready to try something advanced, you simply adjust the way you give suggestions.

Sometimes it's fun to tell stories (metaphor) - and in that way, you allow your client to decide for themselves what they want and need. And when you do that, it's more effective than giving a direct suggestion.

Example: Imagine the sunshine it takes for a bean sprout to grow... Hours of just being in the sun. And now imagine being able to take a bite of sunsine. Eating sunshine (use your hypnotic skill to spin this out.)

Or, you could 'invite' your client to associate the memory of pleasureable experiences with eating vegetables (anchoring).

Example: Think about the fun of opening a birthday present... tearing open the paper and discovering a wonderful gift. Something you've wanted. (pause) And vegetables are a gift you give yourself. (use your hypnotic skill to compose a few additional scenarios.)

And while you're learning to be hypnotically skillful, you should probably avoid attempting age-regression. Save that as an advanced skill that you'll learn later.

[You_Robot]

Thanks for the replies!

@davelowe1977:
He did not exactly say that he did not like the burning sensation (ok, who does?) but rather that he would have liked to watch the rings (not spiral) for a bit longer.
I do not think that my authority is a problem. Maybe authority in general? I do not know.
###

@MN_FriendlyGuy:
I like the idea of telling a story or using a metaphor. Maybe I will try in the next session.
Last time I was trying to convince him with positive arguments.
###

@both:
I do not feel comfortable regarding age regression. Although it might be a powerful tool in therapy, it could also screw up some stuff. Maybe when I am more experienced.
Keep in mind that I am not a psychotherapist but an engineer, so I am not going to try therapy.
###

I will spend more time doing the induction next time.
More coming after the next session on Tuesday.
Other opinions?

[You_Robot]

Hello again!

We have just finished the second session and I think, things are improving!

The setup was basically the same with the rings but I left him to relax just for two minutes before anything else.

This time, I also waited for his eyes to close on their own. That happened about 5 minutes into the session. I then deepened again for 5 to 10 minutes using the stairs and the bed. Then again suggestions for about 5 to 10 minutes. Waking up took about 2 to 5 minutes.
Total time was 25 minutes.

Results:
We went out eating before the session where he told me that this week, he actually thought that a salad on his friends plate looked somehow inviting! I of course attributed this to my 'skills' :D and told him so. (This should strengthen his confidence in me.)

After the session he told me, he could only remember part of the session about to the section with the stairs. Then again (quote) 'something about vegetables being good' (suggestions took 5 to 10 minutes!) and then again the waking up part.
He always looked relaxed and at one time actually made some sounds like snoring (only for about 20 seconds). I already thought I might have lost rapport but continued anyway. He however woke up on command and I never stopped talking to him so I do not think he was asleep. He probably just relaxed the part of his mouth/throat responsible for snoring.

I told him that the session appeared to have been a success and I think he will feel some actual change happen soon.

Opinions?

[davelowe1977]

To give a very short appraisal, excellent improvement on your past session.

By the way, thanks for the feedback on my feedback!

Keep us all informed as to your progress. Also, the detail you go into is good. I am also an engineer, and not a hypnotist!

[You_Robot]

To give a very short appraisal, excellent improvement on your past session.
...

Thanks!

I hope the next session will show even more improvement.

...
By the way, thanks for the feedback on my feedback!
...

I think it is only fair to respond to feedback when I asked for it in the first place.

...
Keep us all informed as to your progress. Also, the detail you go into is good. I am also an engineer, and not a hypnotist!

Will do so!

Good to know that I am not alone on the technical front. :D

[You_Robot]

Hi

Sorry for the break but I was indisposed last week.

This Tuesday was session number three and not too much new to tell.

The setup was the same as before but this time, he remembered nothing after the steps leading down. When I woke him up, he did not feel like he was under for 20 minutes and was quite refreshed. I had to actually poke him slightly because he did not react to the count.
His behavior has not changed yet... :? (But I am not giving up!)

Since I will be away for a while soon, I will try to prepare an MP3 for him to listen to.

Any advice/opinions?

[davelowe1977]

I only have one suggestion to make and that would be to not make an mp3 file now. Perhaps a better idea would be to wait until you can have another live session and then talk about some kind of trigger during it to prepare him for a recorded file. That way he might respond better when he listens.

[You_Robot]

I only have one suggestion to make and that would be to not make an mp3 file now. Perhaps a better idea would be to wait until you can have another live session and then talk about some kind of trigger during it to prepare him for a recorded file. That way he might respond better when he listens.

Thanks. But I think he could profit by listening to it additionally to having the live sessions. Plus, I could try binaurals, subliminals and perhaps some other things. But I could not have done it anyway, since I wanted to finish programming a tool to generate binaurals. (start with frequency x and change to frequency y over a duration of z seconds etc...)

Anyway.
After a break of one week, we did another session last Tuesday. Good news before that:

He has eaten salad! :D

This time, instead of suggesting a comfortable bed, I suggested he would see a book with his subconscious instructions written in it. He should tear out the page concerning vegetables and replace it with new instructions.

I think things are starting to work as planned.

There will be a big break for the next three weeks due to mandatory annual military service... :x

[FloridaPuppy]

I'm about to head off to work so apologize for the short post on something that might have been mentioned and just missed, but how old is the subject?

[You_Robot]

I'm about to head off to work so apologize for the short post on something that might have been mentioned and just missed, but how old is the subject?

:D They have finally installed the internet here... :D

Back on topic:
The subject is 29 and I am 27. Why?

[FloridaPuppy]

I'm about to head off to work so apologize for the short post on something that might have been mentioned and just missed, but how old is the subject?

:D They have finally installed the internet here... :D

Back on topic:
The subject is 29 and I am 27. Why?

Congrats on getting access to the interewebs again :). Mainly curiosity, the "eat your vegetables" thing is a bit unusual unusual here so I was wondering about it. It sounds like things are working well with it though from the thread.

[You_Robot]

I'm about to head off to work so apologize for the short post on something that might have been mentioned and just missed, but how old is the subject?

:D They have finally installed the internet here... :D

Back on topic:
The subject is 29 and I am 27. Why?

Congrats on getting access to the interewebs again :). Mainly curiosity, the "eat your vegetables" thing is a bit unusual unusual here so I was wondering about it. It sounds like things are working well with it though from the thread.

It is something that has been bugging him for some time now. (20+ years!) So we are talking about getting rid of an old habit. I guess it will take some time.
Of course this is less 'kinky' than the usual 'You will be my slave!' but that will be my personal goal still. But one does not usually start out that way. (At least not me.)
If everything works out fine, I might be contributing to other content on this website. But I want to build up some confidence and experience first. :)

[Blink]

Healthy and happy are at least as important as submissive and cuddly.

I'm all for going after the mundane things. You build trust in a very important way. You give someone a gift that they probably couldn't get anywhere else. You develop rapport along with trust, paving the way for deeper trance play later. And, if for no other reason, it's just a damn nice thing to do.

When I'm not enslaving the unwary, I'm taking away anxiety and guilt and turning people into nonsmokers and giving away a lot of peace and calm, 'mong other things.

It's what we evil mind-controlling bastards do.

-- Blink

[You_Robot]

Well well... My first week back in civilian life is almost over and so far, I do not seem to have suffered any irreparable damage from military ser ser ser ser service :roll:

During the last weeks, he has eaten another salad and this week, his girlfriend has agreed to give it a try as well. (You could think they met at a 'No veggies' convention... But they are happy and that is all that counts.)

By the way, if I were to try another induction method while her boyfriend is watching, would that confuse him or will it not affect him at all? (E.g. Hey, why is he doing things differently with her? Is this better? etc...)

Healthy and happy are at least as important as submissive and cuddly.

I'm all for going after the mundane things. You build trust in a very important way. You give someone a gift that they probably couldn't get anywhere else. You develop rapport along with trust, paving the way for deeper trance play later. And, if for no other reason, it's just a damn nice thing to do.

We will not be doing any 'trance play' together. Neither of us swings that way. :D

When I'm not enslaving the unwary, I'm taking away anxiety and guilt and turning people into nonsmokers and giving away a lot of peace and calm, 'mong other things.

It's what we evil mind-controlling bastards do.

-- Blink

:D :D :D
Mind control is the long term goal. But helping a friend is just as nice, I think.
I also believe that one can be a mind controller without being evil. But being a little bit naughty is what makes it fun. :twisted:

[Blink]

We will not be doing any 'trance play' together. Neither of us swings that way. :D

"Convincers" are trance play. Inductions are trance play. Really, anything that isn't trancework is tranceplay. I'd rather play. There's a reason kids have trouble with verb tenses. Use your words carefully.

And, for the record, even if you're played with me, you still probably don't know the full range of whacky shit of which I'm capable. I'm still learning new things m'self. (Tentacles? This might change my sushi-buying hapbits, but sure.)

It's what we evil mind-controlling bastards do.

:D :D :D
Mind control is the long term goal. But helping a friend is just as nice, I think.
I also believe that one can be a mind controller without being evil. But being a little bit naughty is what makes it fun. :twisted:

Begs the question of whether evil is absolute. We all know that the dark side dresses better and Hell has all the good bands. :D

If you haven't already, read Erich Fromm's Escape From Freedom and see his definition of "sadist." I had to think about it for a while, but it was that book that--improbably--led me to embrace the term.

Oh, and welcome back! I hope you had fun finding a bunch of guys who dress alike and following them around for a while. :)

-- Blink

[MN_FriendlyGuy]

Mind control is the long term goal. But helping a friend is just as nice, I think.
I also believe that one can be a mind controller without being evil. But being a little bit naughty is what makes it fun. :twisted:

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

As you continue the hypnosis fun with your friends, I believe the technique that will serve you well is 'pace then lead'

<true statement>

<true statement>

<leading statement>

It's something you 'sprinkle' on top of your normal technique.

Keep your normal technique. And then every so often, throw in the pacing/leading statements.

You're sitting comfortably

Your eyes are closed

You're relax with each breath

As opinion, I believe this is the technique that has the best 'fit' for the goal of control.

I was pleased to see this latest posting from you, since it aligns with the goal of a new recording I'm currently testing. Can I get a client to obey one easy suggestion? If I can get him to understand he enjoys the action I'm suggesting and I can convince him that he enjoys the choice of obeying that suggestion, the rest will follow.

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

[Jeshi]

Mind control is the long term goal. But helping a friend is just as nice, I think.
I also believe that one can be a mind controller without being evil. But being a little bit naughty is what makes it fun. :twisted:

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

As you continue the hypnosis fun with your friends, I believe the technique that will serve you well is 'pace then lead'

<true statement>

<true statement>

<leading statement>

It's something you 'sprinkle' on top of your normal technique.

Keep your normal technique. And then every so often, throw in the pacing/leading statements.

You're sitting comfortably

Your eyes are closed

You're relax with each breath

As opinion, I believe this is the technique that has the best 'fit' for the goal of control.

I was pleased to see this latest posting from you, since it aligns with the goal of a new recording I'm currently testing. Can I get a client to obey one easy suggestion? If I can get him to understand he enjoys the action I'm suggesting and I can convince him that he enjoys the choice of obeying that suggestion, the rest will follow.

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

I remember seeing something about this in a free hypnosis study .pdf file I found on Google XD, it was supposed to be a sample of a larger book and when it talked about this it had the example.

"You are reading this book, you are breathing, you are in a chair, you want to buy the full product" talking about how if you keep saying things that are true already then the brain gets into a pattern of "Yep, that's right, Yep, that's right" and then when you introduce the NEW statement the brain might not notice and keep going "yep, that's right".

So for the given example: "yes, I AM reading this book, Yes I AM breathing, Yes I AM in a chair, Yes I DO want to buy the full product...Wait a minute" they of course suggested that you use less obvious statements such as "You are relaxing deeper" because they are less likely to become obvious.

[Blink]

<true statement>

<true statement>

<leading statement>

It's something you 'sprinkle' on top of your normal technique.

..."You are reading this book, you are breathing, you are in a chair, you want to buy the full product" talking about how if you keep saying things that are true already then the brain gets into a pattern of "Yep, that's right, Yep, that's right" and then when you introduce the NEW statement the brain might not notice and keep going "yep, that's right".

Everybody's got the idea about pacing and leading: you establish a pattern of responses and then set a decision point next in line to get that response. They don't have to be "yes" responses, but those work best.

MN_FriendlyGuy gives great advice (as always). Pacing and leading happens in waltz time. Pace, pace, lead. Pace, pace, lead. Sit, read, relax. Breathe, read, trance.

Just remember that learning is.

Just like it always has been.

-- Blink

Rich can tell you how to trance with a blues-rock riff, and Dave can tell you how to get 3/4 into your 4/4. Can you hear me now?

[You_Robot]

Thanks everyone for the feedback!

Yesterday I hypnotized his girlfriend and she went under like a stone in water... Which is quite funny, because she said she could not be hypnotized. But after I asked about drifting off while driving or being immersed in what is on TV and she answered 'yes' to both, I was convinced she would be a good suspect.

I used the same method as with her boyfriend (who was silently watching).
She closed her eyes quite soon and awakened on the count of ten, as desired.
Asking, why she closed her eyes: 'They were burning.'
And why she opened her eyes on ten and not nine: 'I could have opened them at five.' Me: 'But you did not :D '

She remembered all of the session and did not like the part of descending down the stairs because she is afraid of going to the basement. According to her, this distracted her quite a bit.
She actually said, she felt some presence behind her... Her view of her subconscious mind? Her boyfriend said something similar during his first trance. But he described it more like some stubborn kid. Opinions?

I will try something else to deepen her trance next time.

I also tried the 'pace, pace, lead' rhythm from time to time. I think it worked well.

Cheers!

[You_Robot]

Hello Again

Although I did not post that does not mean I did not hypnotize the two of them in the meantime.

So far so good until:

Yesterday I tried to hypnotize them together and to install a posthypnotic trigger so it would be easier to put them under in the future (after 'veggies' they want to quit smoking and after that, who knows?).
After the induction and some deepening, I tried to assess the depth of their trance by suggesting that one of their arms would become lighter and would start to lift...

Long story short: After spending some time installing the trigger, I wanted to wake them up again and SHE opened her eyes with a smile before I could even start to count and on 'three' HE opened his.

It turned out that the arm lifting suggestion somehow broke HIS trance and SHE was simply irritated by HIS deep breathing. I almost bored them to death by repeating the trigger over and over again...

Needless to say, I am not happy about this result.

Any advice on assessing depth of trance without waking them up?

[iamli3]

I'm not an expert in hypnotism, but from what you have described, it sounds like a very positive first attempt.

I suggest that you study your own comments in your discussion. Generally what the subject gives in feedback should be built upon. For example, you state that the subject did not like the burning sensation and wanted to stare at the spirals for longer. You should perhaps acknowledge this and take particular care to ask him at various stages what he is feeling and whether he wants to do x or y rather than being overly prescriptive, particularly during the induction.

The 'stubborn child' attitude may denote a problem with your authority, but you could explore this by means of age regression and maybe by resorting to the kind of argumentative techniques that parents use with children.

I suppose its a question of experimentation and improvement. Keep us all informed - fascinating.

this made me want to throw my wii mote at the tv , very inteansly , good thing it took me a couple seconds to ponder on that so i was able to stop myself from that reflex (at least it sure seemed spontanios like a reflex >_>) , i settled with just ploping down forward on my bed which im sitting on , i didn't want to read anything else in this topic after that........