bridging unconscious dream to conscious thought?....

[iamli3]

it's been a long time since i was last scared out of this forum , and with the most recent topic still stands for why , but see the thing is , for pretty much all my life i've been fascinated by my dreams , but not until about half a decade ago did i really start to take that interest seriously and see just how well of what i could remember from last night's dream and how much of it from trying how hard and such
typically i can remember anywhere from 5-25% of a dream , course that number is more of a guess but how do you know about something you can't remember? but you always know there was a lot more to your dream than what you can remember , and as for how well , usually pretty explicit , but again that's only a very small portion of the dream i can remember with the same kind of depth as to say i did that consciously

which brings me to the recent event and the point of this

RECENT EVENT (as in last night from this post)

see last night i played heavy rain for the first time with a friend , more than half way through from that play through last night , and my head has been pretty rampant with scenarios from the game to now the next morning , while that doesn't mean much on itself of course as i was falling asleep last night i was wondering what crazy ass shit i would dream about , most of my interesting dreams seem to happen after a late night of gaming or computering
so then came that uncanny moment where you separate from reality without noticing it , which is actually something i seem to have a fear for , and the dreaming commenced

then the morning came , i had quickly came back to conscious based actions again and seemed to be in a pretty good mood from the dream , no worries so i thought myself to grab my drink i keep at my bed as i was very thirsty , took a drink got comfortable again , and since it was only about 5 seconds before this i had my dream sequence going everything in that sub world that i knew was there i thought i should try and look at my dream for a bit....only....where's my dream? i just had it , i was just thinking about it 10 seconds ago , wth did i just dream about last night?
i had forgotten , in that very instant where my conscious mind came back into play that very explicit and interested dream i was having was being suppressed and forgotten
i try desperately to jog my memory and get some kind of recollection going , place , event , conversation subject , if i could just get an idea from any one of those i know i could remember a great deal about my dream , cause you know they are made in cause and effect form same way as reality is while they may still not follow realities rule completely , so if i could just remember 1 very small part in the dream i could remember the cause of that part and the effect afterwords
but shit i couldn't remember a thing! the entire thing just felt like a huge brown dirty blur , and what's worse i started to unwillingly think about other things cause i still wasn't 100% yet , and guess what i was thinking about , just about every scene i played through heavy rain last night , those thoughts were piling up on me and my dream memory kept slipping further away
after a couple minutes i had kinda lost hope that i would ever remember this dream even though i really wanted to cause i know it was interesting i just couldn't remember why.....
still trying to think to myself sutely , something that i know that i might be able to think about which would bring back the memory of the dream through relativity , i think i herd from here on how that works roughly , so daily thoughts ideas things i was thinking about , then - while i can't remember why i did - the thought of fish came through my mind (well i did have some fish on my sandwich that night) , fish , fish , water , yes! im remembering something! (epic flash back lol)
and then i remembered the scene in the dream where we drove up to a kind of dock surrounded by some shallow water inhabited by lost of fish for the point of viewing them in the water from above
and then i remembered much more from the dream since now i had the feeling of how this dream was being emulated in mind , but still not as much as i would have liked to remember.....

THE POINT

so the point of this post is i want to know more , i want to be able to remember more , i however don't want what this site has to offer with it's lucid dream crap where you can supposedly control it with your conscious mind , i want to keep my dreams wild unpredictable and interesting
but of course as of right now all i have on me is my own personal experience , that's most likely not going to be enough , but i want to be able to bridge the gap between understanding my conscious mind to my unconscious mind , so maybe something to get from it would be to understand more about myself as they are all reflectional , but as i said it's just something that has deeply interested me for quite some time.....

so , any ideas from anybody out there? or is this some kind of wishful thinking that is more related to how someone once told me that to "bridge the gap" between conscious and subconscious mind you'd have to split your brain in 2 , or something like that is what i herd?...........

[sarnoga]

Hello iamli3,

Interesting subject, dreams.

Not sure if maybe I am missing the point of what you are saying. You say you are interested in bridging the gap between your conscious and subconscious mind.

That presumes, as some do, that a person has both. I think it is probably more complicated than that, but still in an attempt to understand, that may be as useful a way of conceptualizing it as any other.

On the other hand, it might be that we have only one mind and that it has several modes of operation, two of those modes being conscious and subconscious. But then, maybe conceptualizing the way our mind works as two separate modes of operation is not as accurate as it could be.

What if the operation of our mind is more like a spectrum, with conscious operation at one end and unconscious operation at the other and subconscious operation somewhere between. How it is operating at any given time may be on a sliding scale up and down that spectrum.

A third way of looking at it may be that we have one complex mind that is always operating at all levels and thus produces various types of thoughts, conscious thoughts, subconscious thoughts, and unconscious thoughts.

Using this third model, bridging the gap between them may be to remove the distinction between the various types of thoughts. Seems to me that would not be a good thing as it would leave you with less rather than more. Rather than give you a better understanding of your subconscious it would act to eliminate it or reduce it, thus there would be less there to understand.

Take the second model, different operations of the same mind. What you are asking for is to have both of them going at the same time (which probably already happens) but more than that, to be consciously aware of the simultaneous and various operations of the mind.

To do that without exercising control over those operations sounds like an invitation to insanity. A bit like having a movie constantly running in your head while you try to do other things, or perhaps like having another person in there with you competing for attention and control. Sounds a bit like schizophrenia. Then, if you take control you are back in the situation you didn't want or else have eliminated and restricted your mind.

It seems to me that in the first model with actual separate minds you are in the same or similar position.

Based on your explanation of your interest it seems to me that you are not looking for a bridging of your conscious and subconscious which would mean either insanity or exercising a measure of control that you said you do not want. Not something where the two are working on top of each other and aware of what the other is doing at the time it is doing it.

All you seem to be looking for is better recall of your dreams. As if your dreams were all recorded in conscious memory for you to review later at your leisure. I think in some measure that may be possible, in another way it may not.

I am certainly not an expert on the subject. I am simply thinking about it and putting some of those thoughts in writing. It seems to me that what gives dreams the wild unpredictable interesting quality you seek is the very thing that makes them hard to remember.

Could it be that the part of our dreams we remember best are the parts closest in time to our waking. A time when we are sliding from unconsciousness into consciousness and our conscious mind is once again exerting control. The more control it exerts the better the recall but the less the wild unpredictability. The less control it exerts the less the recall but the more wild and unpredictable.

I'm not sure, but I am starting to think you cannot get there from here.

In any event, it is a fascinating subject, at least to me and apparently to you. Perhaps others can do better with it than I.

Best of luck in your quest for understanding. I hope you attain what you seek without any ill effects along the way, or at least none that last very long.

Regards,

Sarnoga

[iamli3]

oh f#$5 and of course it has to be one of you who reply >_>

oh well fine since unless a topic around here is about sucking dick be being tied down it doesn't get dozens of posts a day so i guess i'll just take what i can get......

i thought dreams were unconscious though not subconscious? (must , retain , self.....)

"Using this third model, bridging the gap between them may be to remove the distinction between the various types of thoughts."
what? no , i think you got your methods mixed up there , k the 3 thoughts are running through the mind at the same time , but i can't detect them in that manner , why? because i don't know how to distinguish them other than by when i had them , and the way to detect them and "bridged the gap" would be by making them distinguishable , not by taking that distinction away.....

eh , human minds have pull off trickier stunts then that before.....

no no , i would want to be able to control those thoughts for the purpose of understanding them , i was just saying any of the stuff this site has to offer with being able to "control your dreams while you sleep and remember them to make them your little play house" wasn't what i am talking about here or am interested in cause i like my dreams chaotic , when i can remember them that is , but i already gave a short story about that......

that is a re-occurring thing , but it doesn't happen all the time , what does make for remembering the content of a dream the most is remembering the feeling along with the context , again as i already described , but not until now did i even think to question why , which is something i make a rule of doing , so that's why i thought of finally saying something about it to hopefully get some progress and answers.......

[iamli3]

ok so i did some thinking (well really i thought like a couple days ago but you know i had more important things to do like play some pokemans lol) came up with some better ways of explaining what this topic's idea is about (who knows i might even get a reply out of this >_>)

so first off i think the over all view of the unconscious dream as a whole is not that i want to be able to control it , but that i want to understand how to control it , or at least how it works , it's just me that i wouldn't try to influence my dream time other than how i normally would

but there is so much more to this that it's difficult to think of a place to start
because there are things i do know already about dreams or at least my dreams specifically that do happen as a pattern so there must be something there , i just don't know why , like as i said i can easily remember much of a dream with my conscious mind if i remember the feeling combined with the context , and since the aim of subject is on what i dreamed the images start flowing back to an extent , but why is that?

why is it that i seem to be operating on a stored knowledge of "feelings" that are not of any of the 5 senses or emotional so it is impossible to comprehend to describe them any other way than just "feelings"?
that was outside of dreams right there , but it does also play a big role in dreams as i said

why is it that normally about once a week (if i can remember that is) i have a dream which involves a thought or situation that had happened to me a week ago?

why is it that most of the time my dreams are effected by what i like to call dream gravity?

for those who have not experienced or appropriately named it as such dream gravity is the effect where you know you should be able to move and much faster but try as you might you only seem to be slowing down , however ironically this only ever seems to happen at climaxes of dreams in which you would be in dire need of fast movement , for countless dreams of mine as soon as it spawned a threat and my character of myself became fearful and tried to flee from that threat the dream gravity took effect and the perfect description of it is that you feel like your moving in slow motion , unwillingly , you can feel slow tugging creaks in every joint of your body as you tell your muscles to move them , futilely , as your are just able to turn your head back enough to see that the threat is still moving at normal speed and gaining on your fast.....

it was terribly bad when i was younger , now only about half as bad as before , many a dream have come to a premature awakening thanks to the effects of dream gravity.....

why is it that i can recall many times that right before i am about to wake up from some kind of external stimulus my dream mind quickly shift's the subject into something related to what is ABOUT to awaken me so that - i think anyways - it does not come as such a shock to be woken up?
the key point about this is that my dreams have predicted coming events several times that my conscious senses i don't think would be able to detect otherwise.....

i can't think of any more patterns in the dreams themselves atm , but that's far from finished on the explaining

cause for me , i like sleep , but i also like being awake , im a guy that can be both morning and night person , and as much as i would like to stay up forever to be able to do things , i would also like to catchup on a lot of that missed out sleep cause it just sucks trying to do anything while your tired , if you're doing it while well rested it's much easier to enjoy it
but there's a problem with all this , much as i like to lay down at night to eventually move into slumber , im afraid of doing so
i don't have a problem with my conscious mind nor my unconscious mind even with all the shit it puts me through every night (in the dreams heh) , but i am absolutely terrified of the transition of going from conscious to for sleep at night , so much so that i've often thought of actions or just thoughts to try and keep me from getting to that point but at the same time still trying to rest , it doesn't have any effect on my sleep as far as i can tell , just the thoughts i have before falling asleep
and idk why that is , or it could just be with the thought of loosing rational conscious control over my mind's thoughts , that's something big for me.....

but of course then i start to settle in and forget about that fear of the transition and i begin to focus on the transition itself entirely , because i also find it incredibly fascinating to try to observe my thoughts as they dawdle between conscious awareness and unconscious crazy randomness

but there's more to that , as just the other night i kinda had a new experience with this , as i was keeping track of my thoughts while i was trying to fall asleep , and eventually the conscious mind receding and the unconscious began to do the thinking , then something jumping my conscious mind back to awareness , this time something extraordinary happened , my conscious mind was back enough to be aware of itself, but my unconscious mind was still going on and doing it's own thinking that for a brief moment i was actually able to look at as a spectator with my conscious mind
needless to say that was a thrilling experience to have happen even if i can't remember the context , and not much of the feeling , but shortly after my conscious observing thoughts began to unknowingly be swiped back under by the unconscious mind/thoughts , i dwindled again for a bit before finally falling asleep

so that's all of my experiences that i have to share for now for those who give a danm

the final point to make that with all these whys , the first step to finding the answer to everything i believe would first to be able to remember the dreams themselves flawlessly to be able to draw their raw information from , i guess that's what i was trying to get at with my first post in here.......

[MacGyver]

could be worse, ya could do like me and see into the future when you go to sleep. sometimes i remember what i see and sometimes i dont. there are times i zone out during the day and see into the future, and i really hate when i do that as it is always something bad, and it always comes true. what i see in my sleep does not always come true, but i do see some disturbing things in my sleep, such as being married.

myself, i see things so clear, that as soon as certain events fall into place on certain days, what i saw in my sleep 9 months or more ago slams into me like a freight train, and i will know everything that will happen that day, what everyone will say, even down to how they have their hair and what they are wearing before anyone even starts their day at work. and for some reason, it scares the crap out of people when they see everything come true just as i predicted, most just stop talking to me, one guy has not said a single word to me in over 6 years because of that. and most will just ignore me and walk away for 6 months to a year without talking to me. it is as if they are afraid i can read their minds or something, LOL.

ya might be happy ya dont see into the future like i do.

[iamli3]

end of the first paragraph made me lol pretty good XD

and well those ppl are faggots then , i think that would be cool :l
im no stranger to human relation isolation , so big deal to that
that's interesting though , of course we're all just shitting here with lucky coincidences of these events , we all know such a thing is not entirely possible , my dreams have also been wrong before as well

my favorite prediction moment would have to be 1 time a couple years back i was going to school , and the night before in my dream i remember just walking outside to see this more beautiful of snow storms , i saw all the details with such precision that i wouldn't even notice with my conscious mind viewing the same thing , how many snow flakes were falling , their size , how hard the wind was blowing , how much snow had already fallen , noticing each branch on an exposed tree and watching it slowly build up more and more on them

so i wake up and think huh that was a nice thing to watch , so i get ready and go , as im walking to the bus i think "wouldn't that be awesome if it were to snow like that right now?" , it wasn't snowing when i left but i kept going , going the bus line , got on the other one , got off at my stop , this is like an hour later , still like 7 minute walk to the school , so i walk and then , what's this? it starts to snow , lightly , but then harder , the wind starts to blow , i come a hill side stairs which has some trees to the sides of it , and bam exactly what i saw in my dream , with how much snow was falling to how much had already fallen , so to me my dream that night predicted the weather that morning :)

[MacGyver]

the day i predicted atleast 6 months in advance that came true, the first time i done this, man, talk about everyone movin as far away from me as possible at school that day, i started by tellin some about the morning assembly and what would be said and all that day. they blew that one off as a lucky guess, then a bit before lunch, i told them there would be square dancing and who would be dancing with what girl and the clothes each of them would be wearing and the events of the rest of the day. i even told them what music would be playing and all. i saw the entire day one night in my sleep, and when the entire day happened as i said it would, talking turned to whispers and blank stares were on faces when i got close to my classmates. i guess me predicting an entire day kinda freaked everyone out just a bit, LOL. that was back in 1992, and most of my old classmates still refuse to talk to me online, guess i got them good, LOL.

[iamli3]

hah , nice , that's quite an interesting story.....

[iamli3]

i just wanted to make a quick post cause out all the possible wired things my dream mind has come up with in the past this is way high up there on the list

but bare;y even a couple minutes before i was woken up this morning i remember my dream , of course there was much more to this before hand , but the last event of it i could remember before being woken up was me , some other female , we were having some kind of sex orgy between the 2 of us as huge clumps of spaghetti lm the sky , like some human sized clumps , and i was scarfing them down have having this sexual stimulus which such ferocity , i can hardly understand why , sure i love food above all else but i hate women and it's not like i was physically hungry or anything
it was just a really wired sensation to go through rolling around in all that spaghetti getting covered in the sauce while supposedly having sex as well , like WTF? lol......

[Liann]

i just wanted to make a quick post cause out all the possible wired things my dream mind has come up with in the past this is way high up there on the list

but bare;y even a couple minutes before i was woken up this morning i remember my dream , of course there was much more to this before hand , but the last event of it i could remember before being woken up was me , some other female , we were having some kind of sex orgy between the 2 of us as huge clumps of spaghetti lm the sky , like some human sized clumps , and i was scarfing them down have having this sexual stimulus which such ferocity , i can hardly understand why , sure i love food above all else but i hate women and it's not like i was physically hungry or anything
it was just a really wired sensation to go through rolling around in all that spaghetti getting covered in the sauce while supposedly having sex as well , like WTF? lol......

They have some really delicious yummy head medicines for this kind of stuff nowadays, and all you need to do to qualify for a free prescription is show a printout of your posts, pretty much any one of them, and show it to any shrink or head doctor. They will give you the really good stuff that they save just for very special people like you. You should try it. Soon.

[iamli3]

hohoo i see my one comment on that other topic buy some guy which i mentioned you have created a bit of a vendetta on me from you :)
well then i guess i should just go take a look at that other topic again for the reply to get the full extent of this :)

also since im here i might as well mention that last night's dream involved a lot of dbz and even myself sorta being able to fly though it was difficult , i had to really push myself to make it up that rather large hill , again just some more new and rather odd sensations that im experiencing in my recent dreams......

this does nothing to help with the topic's topic though , still waiting for someone on that.......

[Calimore]

i just wanted to make a quick post cause out all the possible wired things my dream mind has come up with in the past this is way high up there on the list......

They have some really delicious yummy head medicines for this kind of stuff nowadays, and all you need to do to qualify for a free prescription is show a printout of your posts, pretty much any one of them, and show it to any shrink or head doctor. They will give you the really good stuff that they save just for very special people like you. You should try it. Soon.

For some reason I hate to admit that Liann's right, but that was some good advice there.

[iamli3]

come again?.....