Communication w/ the subconscious via the ideomotor response

[qv]

So....
Does anyone else do this?


...I suppose I'll explain. The ideomotor response is a phenomenon wherein you can key certain body movements (the subtler, the better) to certain responses, say, yes or no. Used properly, your subconscious will make you move in a way that explains its answer. Generally, people take a pendulum and say that moving forward and back is yes, side to side is no, then they ask away.
So it's like a personal Ouija board, only you are the board, the thing responding to it is undeniably yourself, and you're less likely to draw the attention of Satan.
I've been doing it for awhile, to the point that I just do finger twitches, and I can usually mentally anticipate what my subconscious is trying to say, whether it fits with the 'yes/no' style or not. For example, if it takes a full minute to realize that I can't eat cereal with a knife, I accuse my subconscious, and it responds either with a 'No, it seriously wasn't me', or with a trollface. We're bros, though, so I'm pretty chill when it comes to that. (Side note: my subconscious would like to note that I frequently get overboard with my accusations, and it would stop trolling me if I didn't enjoy it, since it knows where to draw the line. I mean, apparently; I didn't really plan on adding this, but I did anyways... because honestly, if I had planned this out, it would have been written better)

So yeah, anyone else communicate with their subconscious? Maybe have some good stories about it?

[ocntrl]

Very interesting.

I have not used it on my own subconscious, but it is a very solid way to get someone into a deep trance.

I am actually working on a file using that technique.

[Jeshi]

?_? Your description of your subconscious is very unusual. I'm pretty sure that you're just thinking to yourself. The whole point of the subconscious being sub-conscious is that you aren't aware of it and can't be aware of it, only aware of the actions that result from it. It isn't a separate sentient being that controls your body, it's just the things you do without thinking about. You're still the one doing them, you just aren't thinking about it until you realize you're doing it.

[qv]

...well, yes, but...
Okay, so yes, I am just thinking to myself. In fact, I sometimes have trouble telling where which thoughts came from. However, every time I've done so, and misrepresented my subconscious, I could tell, because I would feel like metaphorically kicking myself. My subconscious isn't cool with me putting crap in its mouth.
And in fact, my discussions can be pretty basic, because so much of my subconscious consists of things I don't even know how to think of. That said, my subconscious is more than able to respond to things, so as long as I stick to things I know about, it can (but doesn't always) give an appropriate response via uncoordinated thoughts, finger-twitching, punching myself in the balls, etc.
And if I do talk about my subconscious as if it is a separate being with its own motives, personality, etc., it is simply because it's a different way of looking at it, one that for my purposes, I find a helpful enough tool to understanding my inner workings. Helpful enough that my mind probably goes out of its way to legitimize said paradigm. This is okay, because I am well aware that I am it and it is me. It's just usually easier to explain interpersonal conflicts as opposed to intrapersonal conflicts.
And as for the fact that finger-twitching is just a thing I do without thinking about it until I've done it, I agree wholeheartedly.
Besides, just because you are aware of something your subconscious is doing doesn't mean you'll stay aware of it. Time has a tendency to do that.
Y'know, not to sound unreasonable or anything... I often have trouble saying what I mean, so if I'm still being confusing, I'll probably just revisit this and post more walls.
Tl;dr: You are absolutely correct, except it's actually impossible to be sure of anything to do with the mind, so to a certain extent, it comes down to whatever floats your boat. And my boat seems to be floating fine from my inherently limited perspective.

[Blink]

Ideomotor signalling is useful by itself, as a precursor to something "bigger," like an arm levitation, or as a trance induction.

You can amplify/clarify ideomotor signals with Chevreul's Pendulum (washer on a string, but the French name makes it sound more impressive).

You might also want to look into the NLP technique based on the work of Virginia Satir: parts therapy. The part that's making faces at you Rawks Haaard.

-- Blink

[Jeshi]

Personally I think the reverse of this is usually more interesting. I think the term for it is "anchoring?" When you connect with a certain physical movement of feeling with a response. So rather than twitching your finger in a certain direction meaning yes or no, when someone touches your left shoulder it would make your response be yes or no.

So if someone made the left shoulder yes and the right shoulder no then they could influence someone's decisions based on touching their shoulder.

"Do you want to make out?" *touches left shoulder*
"Yes!"

There was some TV special where Derren Brown anchored rubbing your thigh with impulsiveness in a group of people and then made them associate green with antagonism. Among various other things he managed to condition these people to try and rob a fake bank-van the program had set up for a test.

They had lots of billboards of people rubbing their thighs with the phrases "DO IT!" and the bank van and its workers were dressed in green. So the subjects saw the green van, got angry, then rubbed their thigh and got impulsive, and then proceeded to try and steal the money from the van. They then found out it was all a set-up because they'd signed up for a Derren Brown TV special and should have expected something like this to happen to them.

[qv]

Yeah, I'm not British so I didn't see it on TV, but watched some of it on Youtube. Crazy stuff.
I think a better example, though, is the one where he talks to this woman, and anchors one shoulder with not being sure, and the other with being sure. He then proceeded to use that to convince her that red was black, by having red in the sure column, then moving it over and saying she's not sure, it could be black, and then he moves back to her other side saying that she's sure it's black. She was so confused when she tried finding her car only to realize it had changed colors.
I mean, I think that's what happened. It's been awhile.
In any case, quite the case of waking hypnosis, methinks.


So, uh.... on-topic. I don't think I mentioned this, but you can actually use ideomotor responses on others as well. So long as they do it right, they can respond to questions. This actually works well even without trance, so if a person seems to have some sort of block, this could be an acceptable alternative (though in such a case, you'd best have a "Don't care to answer that" response).
Just saying so in case someone reading this hadn't made the mental leap from 'on self' to 'on others'.

[lisacd20]

red and black? cmon, you can be more smarter.

[qv]

red and black? cmon, you can be more smarter.

Yeah, but she wasn't even hypnotized.
Granted, they probably were secretly screening people for somnambulists, but...
Well, this was just some woman at a bar. He got a visual hallucination out of her without her even knowing it, having only just met her. That's hardly an easy feat.
And yes, he could have used some other suggestion instead, but keep in mind this was televised. It's not as if he could have done anything too out there.

[Jeshi]

Derren Brown is actually known for exaggerating things. He never uses stooges or actors but sometimes he'll cut out stuff like spending 3 hours hypnotizing the subjects to have the exact reaction he wants and then pretending to use a different technique to get it.

An example would be most times when he claims to read minds or have other people read minds. He's actually using NLP to convince people to think of what he wants in advance.

She didn't hallucinate, she probably she got the perception of red and black mixed up. She saw red and thought it was black, but she still saw it as the same.

He's still an amazing mentalist whom I look up to, but I never trust the explanations he gives. He once had a show all about making people unable to leave their chairs, he used one hypnosis session with the audience that would work on it's own then padded out the rest of the 45 minutes with other weird things that had nothing to do with it.

[QueenCleopatra]

I use ideomotor responses with parts therapy on clients/subjects both during therapy and recreational sessions. The first time I used it for erotic hypnosis, I felt it was a bit cheeky of me, but what the heck, I got great results and so did the subject. I find it very helpful for getting past blocks and negotiating with the subconscious mind.

Ideomotor responses are not the same as anchoring, not by a supremely long stretch.

Cleo

[Blink]

Yeah, but she wasn't even hypnotized.

Depends on what you mean by hypnotized.

Hypnosis, as I define it, is a conversation with your subconscious. You don't have to be unconscious for that to happen. As a matter of fact, it's often better if you're paying close attention and maybe even playing along a little.

Drowsy, woozy, relaxed and happy is "two drink minimum," not hypnosis.

Erickson theorized that every time a trigger is used or a postyhypnotic suggestion is carried out that the subject is briefly experiencing trance. Anyone who knows how to be completely awake and alert and have that sort of trance experience is a very, very good boy, indeed.

-- Blink