Moderator: EMG
lizzie101 wrote: what I'm asking for, I suppose, is advice on what I need to do outside of the hypnosis to avoid being caught. Also, for the trigger, how can I precisely control the length of the episode? Or can I at all, should I say?
thanks for all the helpful advice! I think you misunderstand though - when I talk about being caught, I mean someone catching onto the fact that I have artificially induced amnesia. That, I fear, could cause me to get locked in a mental hospital, at the least my family would never respect me again. How I'm going to set it up so it looks like I've actually gotten amnesia, I do not know. Right now I'm pretty much focused on the hypnosis aspects of it.Mutazoa wrote:lizzie101 wrote: what I'm asking for, I suppose, is advice on what I need to do outside of the hypnosis to avoid being caught. Also, for the trigger, how can I precisely control the length of the episode? Or can I at all, should I say?
Well if you want the amnesia to last several days, it's going to be hard to keep from getting caught, unless your not planning on leaving the house for the entire time. You'll still, as you say, have your sense of identity, but you won't remember your friends, co-workers (or that you even have a job) and if you run into them while you are out and about the jig, as they say, is up. Not to mention the "fun" you'll have if, say, your mom calls to chit chat for a bit...
Depending on how you work the file, you probably won't remember that you hypnotically erased your memories, so you'll most likely experience some pretty intense feelings of panic, if not terror when you wake up and realize that you don't remember anything about your life before that point. Most people at that point end up running to the hospital to find out whats wrong with them...
As for how precise you can get with the trigger, you should be able to be very exact, as long as you are careful with your wording. You shouldn't have to worry about forgetting how to speak. Loss of speech is normally attributed to stroke victims and other forms of brain damage. Loss of speech through amnesia is very very VERY rare. You will be able to form and retain memories from the inception of your amnesiatic episode, especially if you make that a condition in your hypnosis session. Antegrade amnesia is, again, usually linked to (physical) brain damage. Just make sure you clearly and succinctly state the conditions and duration of your amnesia. I would also suggest working in an escape clause or two; specific events that will snap you out of your amnesiatic state in case of an emergency. Events, not trigger words or phrases, as you won't remember them.
I would strongly suggest writing out your script and proof reading it several times, looking for loopholes. I would also suggest enlisting the aid of one or more of the tists on here to proof read your script for you as well. I would also suggest telling at least one person you know and trust IRL what you are doing as an added safety measure.
As for the wording, I would avoid using any reference to "erasing" your memories as this can accidentally have just that effect and make memory recovery difficult. I would, instead, make reference to "locking away" your memories such as in a safe or vault that will be opened allowing you to access those memories again after X amount of time or when the safety clauses are met...
Mutazoa wrote:
... Most people at that point end up running to the hospital to find out whats wrong with them...
... Just make sure you clearly and succinctly state the conditions and duration of your amnesia. I would also suggest working in an escape clause or two; specific events that will snap you out of your amnesiatic state in case of an emergency. Events, not trigger words or phrases, as you won't remember them.
...
bandler wrote:lizzie101 says, "what I want is to forget my past completely, retaining, of course, my language skills and sense of self identity."
Which is impossible: you can not retain your sense of self identity without the memories that tell you who you are.
Mutazoa wrote:
Most amnesiacs remember how to speak, how to read and write, how to drive a car...they just can't call up specific memories. We don't consciously call upon our memories to decide how we act and react. We don't stop and think "ok, I was stung by a bee when I was 3 so I'm going to avoid that bee over there like the plague"...we just do it. Even in a case of amnesia, the memories are still there, we just can't access them.
bandler wrote:Mutazoa wrote:
Most amnesiacs remember how to speak, how to read and write, how to drive a car...they just can't call up specific memories. We don't consciously call upon our memories to decide how we act and react. We don't stop and think "ok, I was stung by a bee when I was 3 so I'm going to avoid that bee over there like the plague"...we just do it. Even in a case of amnesia, the memories are still there, we just can't access them.
"Most amnesiacs" - where are you getting your statistical data from? What studies have you read or conducted that lead you to this point of view?
Mutazoa wrote:bandler wrote:lizzie101 says, "what I want is to forget my past completely, retaining, of course, my language skills and sense of self identity."
Which is impossible: you can not retain your sense of self identity without the memories that tell you who you are.
Well that depends on what lizzie means by her sense of identity. Basically if all she wants to retain is her name and her unconscious habits/mannerisms she should be able to do this.
Most amnesiacs remember how to speak, how to read and write, how to drive a car...they just can't call up specific memories. We don't consciously call upon our memories to decide how we act and react. We don't stop and think "ok, I was stung by a bee when I was 3 so I'm going to avoid that bee over there like the plague"...we just do it. Even in a case of amnesia, the memories are still there, we just can't access them.
Mutazoa wrote:bandler wrote:Mutazoa wrote:
Most amnesiacs remember how to speak, how to read and write, how to drive a car...they just can't call up specific memories. We don't consciously call upon our memories to decide how we act and react. We don't stop and think "ok, I was stung by a bee when I was 3 so I'm going to avoid that bee over there like the plague"...we just do it. Even in a case of amnesia, the memories are still there, we just can't access them.
"Most amnesiacs" - where are you getting your statistical data from? What studies have you read or conducted that lead you to this point of view?
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/amnesia/DS01041/DSECTION=symptoms
http://health.howstuffworks.com/mental-health/neurological-conditions/amnesia.htm
http://www.lef.org/protocols/neurological/amnesia_01.htm
Is that enough or should I keep linking?
bandler wrote:Mutazoa wrote:bandler wrote:Mutazoa wrote:
Most amnesiacs remember how to speak, how to read and write, how to drive a car...they just can't call up specific memories. We don't consciously call upon our memories to decide how we act and react. We don't stop and think "ok, I was stung by a bee when I was 3 so I'm going to avoid that bee over there like the plague"...we just do it. Even in a case of amnesia, the memories are still there, we just can't access them.
"Most amnesiacs" - where are you getting your statistical data from? What studies have you read or conducted that lead you to this point of view?
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/amnesia/DS01041/DSECTION=symptoms
http://health.howstuffworks.com/mental-health/neurological-conditions/amnesia.htm
http://www.lef.org/protocols/neurological/amnesia_01.htm
Is that enough or should I keep linking?
That is enough to make my point for me. Generalizations about amnesia that might have been caused by a dozen or more events, drugs, or illnesses are not as useful to the topic at hand as actual experience with hypnotic amnesia.
bandler wrote:
That is enough to make my point for me. Generalizations about amnesia that might have been caused by a dozen or more events, drugs, or illnesses are not as useful to the topic at hand as actual experience with hypnotic amnesia.
lizzie101 wrote: thanks for all the helpful advice! I think you misunderstand though - when I talk about being caught, I mean someone catching onto the fact that I have artificially induced amnesia. That, I fear, could cause me to get locked in a mental hospital, at the least my family would never respect me again. How I'm going to set it up so it looks like I've actually gotten amnesia, I do not know. Right now I'm pretty much focused on the hypnosis aspects of it.
I agree with you about telling someone. I do have some very liberal friends who would not out me to my family unless it were absolutely necessary.
I will definitely admit that my research thus far has been limited. I am not planning on making the file tomorrow and having a go at it; I'm thinking more of like next summer, because I know I've got a LOT of research to do. However what I do know is that I want the symptoms to mimic pure retrograde amnesia. As for how long I should have the trigger last, I don't know exactly. A week seems plenty of time to have no memory, I suppose. Hopefully this weekend I will have time to properly research amnesia, I'm a little too busy right now.Mutazoa wrote:bandler wrote:
That is enough to make my point for me. Generalizations about amnesia that might have been caused by a dozen or more events, drugs, or illnesses are not as useful to the topic at hand as actual experience with hypnotic amnesia.
The OP is talking about simulating actual amnesia with in a certain set of parameters. You stated that a specific parameter, namely the retention of self identity, could not be achieved, I stated it could then, at your request, linked to several sources, stating that generally amnesia cases seldom lose their sense of identity. I fail to see where your ire comes from or is directed; other than some one dared to disagree with you?
"Actual experience with hypnotic amnesia" is so common amongst hypnotists that its not worth mentioning. Its like actual experience walking. I fail to see why you even bring it up. As hypnotic amnesia mimics one form or another of the actual medical condition, any knowledge of the medical form would easily translate to its hypnotic counterpart.
I stated common effects (and reactions) of actual amnesia, as per the OP's initial topic, information easily available to anyone who can use a search engine and read. You countered with information counter to that given by modern medicine, challenge my information, then when sited, you say it does not apply to the topic of the OP. If Lizzy wants to mimic actual amnesia, then I'm afraid my information does indeed apply, and is indeed useful to the topic at hand.
I used generalizations as Lizzy has not gone into exacting detail what she would like to accomplish, or what form of amnesia she would like to mimic. Using specific information at this point would be like giving some one every ounce of information about a Lamborgini when all they ask is "hey what do you know about cars."
Mutazoa wrote:
The OP is talking about simulating actual amnesia with in a certain set of parameters. You stated that a specific parameter, namely the retention of self identity, could not be achieved, I stated it could then, at your request, linked to several sources, stating that generally amnesia cases seldom lose their sense of identity. I fail to see where your ire comes from or is directed; other than some one dared to disagree with you?
"Actual experience with hypnotic amnesia" is so common amongst hypnotists that its not worth mentioning. Its like actual experience walking. I fail to see why you even bring it up. As hypnotic amnesia mimics one form or another of the actual medical condition, any knowledge of the medical form would easily translate to its hypnotic counterpart.
I stated common effects (and reactions) of actual amnesia, as per the OP's initial topic, information easily available to anyone who can use a search engine and read. You countered with information counter to that given by modern medicine, challenge my information, then when sited, you say it does not apply to the topic of the OP. If Lizzy wants to mimic actual amnesia, then I'm afraid my information does indeed apply, and is indeed useful to the topic at hand.
I used generalizations as Lizzy has not gone into exacting detail what she would like to accomplish, or what form of amnesia she would like to mimic. Using specific information at this point would be like giving some one every ounce of information about a Lamborgini when all they ask is "hey what do you know about cars."
bandler wrote:
Dear Mutazoa, It seems we had a failure to communicate.
When I asked where your data came from, you linked to medical sources describing actual amnesia. Great. As you say, anyone can google amnesia.
What I was interested in was your experience with hypnotic amnesia.
Let me ask again, What is your experience with hypnotic amnesia? Have you induced total amnesia in a client or volunteer? For how long? Under what circumstances? You wrote with such confidence I wanted to know where that confidence came from.
Since lizzie101 wrote back with a bit more detail, I think there is nothing to be concerned about one way or the other.
Mutazoa wrote:
Ah, yes...failure to communicate indeed.
A little background on me...
I was first introduced to hypnotism about age 7 when a friend of the family was getting into stage hypnotism and did a demonstration at a gathering at our house. By age 10 I was hypnotizing friends at parties for laughs. Off and on over the last 30 years I have worked as a stage hypnotist, and have taken steps to getting my hypnotherapy license.
As I said earlier, hypnotic amnesia is one of the first things a hypnotist learns (especially stage hypnotists). Although I have not induced total amnesia (doing so could do serious harm and I'm not willing to risk that for a stage show), I have caused subjects to forget their own name, friends names, to forget an entire summer vacation and believe they've been attending classes for a year straight (I let this go for a week). I have also used hypnosis to help some one forget a particular memory that nobody should have as well as the events immediately prior. That was 2 years ago and so far it has not resurfaced.
Before that last example I made sure to do a little research on medical amnesia, just to cover my arse. I wanted to know, mostly, how long medical amnesia usually lasted and under what conditions that memory could resurface.
lizzie101 wrote:Ah, see, this is why I chose hypnosis over drugs. Its hard to dispute the effect hypnosis can have on one's memories.
bandler wrote:Thanks for sharing, Mutazoa.
There are problems associated with 'forgetting' traumatic events. The trauma tends to resurface in predictably unpredictable ways. There are several therapeutic techniques to deal with traumatic memories, but hypnotic amnesia is not one I have heard recommended.
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