Derren Brown (The assassin)

[hypnostriggers]

Has anyone watched that tv show by Derren Brown?

I am very aware that he is not only a hypnotist (in fact I believe he is not acertified hypnotist), but he infuses mentalism, nlp, magic tricks (so there is a possibility it´s all set up).

In one of his latest, and possibly most polemic stunts (considering he did the russian roulette routine a couple of years ago) he hypnotized a subject (after careful selection) into carrying out a fake assassination attempt against Stephen Fry, British celebrity, during a speech. The subject was not aware that it was all set up, so the subject actually believed he did murdered Stephen Fry (but of course, he didn´t killed him).

It is commonplace in hypnosis that one would not perform something (murderer) while hypnotized the same way one would not do it awake. But Derren tried and (maybe using magic or stage tricks, who knows) succeeded into breaking this commonplace.

What do you think about that?

Cheers

[zapnosis]

My own opinion is that the guy is more illusionist than anything else. He is a showman and he's very good at it, and I have no doubt that he has some psychological tricks that he has perfected, as good illusionists can. But his shows shouldn't be taken seriously in a scientific sense, they are entertainment. After all, seeing a magician pull a rabbit out of an empty hat doesn't change what you know about hats.

Z

[Mutazoa]

When a magician calls a volunteer up on the stage to help with a trick, that person is called a plant. When a "hypnotist" selects and turns them into an assassin, the subject is called a plant.

Unless Mr. Brown beat the million to one odds and actually found, totally at random and by sheer luck, an actual homicidal nut case who had no moral injunction against murdering someone, the whole bit was staged.

Sorry to burst your bubble....

[hypnostriggers]

no bubble bursted.

I admire Derren for his showmanship, but i am aware that there is a line he tends to break when he leaves hypnotism and enters trickery.
Even Derren himself states that his shows are not 100% NLP and mentalism

His hypnotism acts, when he is using Hypnosis really are good though

[icedragon]

my personal problem with all the hypnosis done by Derren Brown is that there are camera's all about. people act differently on camera

[Midnight68652]

It isn't impossible to make somebody do they wouldn't normally do it is just difficult. You just need to make their mind realize that they want to be it or do it. If you know what your doing you can make anybody a plant. Though some people its harder to do.

Though we all have those homicidal instincts. Its just if we decide to suppress them. If you ever thought even in anger I wish he was dead then you have it in you.

[Mutazoa]

It isn't impossible to make somebody do they wouldn't normally do it is just difficult. You just need to make their mind realize that they want to be it or do it. If you know what your doing you can make anybody a plant. Though some people its harder to do.

Though we all have those homicidal instincts. Its just if we decide to suppress them. If you ever thought even in anger I wish he was dead then you have it in you.

Um....no.

Better, sicker, and more devious people have tried this long before you were a gleam in your daddy's eye. The CIA dumped a ton of money into researching this and THEY failed, yet you tell me YOU can do it. Expect the black helicopters to be landing in your yard any minute to escort you to GitMo for job re-assignment....

[hypnostriggers]

It isn't impossible to make somebody do they wouldn't normally do it is just difficult. You just need to make their mind realize that they want to be it or do it. If you know what your doing you can make anybody a plant. Though some people its harder to do.

Though we all have those homicidal instincts. Its just if we decide to suppress them. If you ever thought even in anger I wish he was dead then you have it in you.

It is

Their subconscious would protect himself/herself during the trance. The subject would probably snap out of trance just by listening to a crazy suggestion like kill yourself...

[qv]

It isn't impossible to make somebody do they wouldn't normally do it is just difficult. You just need to make their mind realize that they want to be it or do it. If you know what your doing you can make anybody a plant. Though some people its harder to do.

Though we all have those homicidal instincts. Its just if we decide to suppress them. If you ever thought even in anger I wish he was dead then you have it in you.

It is

Their subconscious would protect himself/herself during the trance. The subject would probably snap out of trance just by listening to a crazy suggestion like kill yourself...

...unless the person doesn't consider killing himself to be a crazy suggestion... damn, those were some tough times...

Ahem, anyways, the thing about assassination is that the vast majority of the civilized world is full of pussies. If you can't stand seeing a dead dog, how could you even think of murdering a person? So right there is part of the problem... those 'homicidal urges' are naturally suppressed, by default... giving in to those urges without damn good reason is itself what is unnatural. The flip side is, though, that most people are self-righteous assholes. If they think they're doing the right thing, then there's no end to what they're capable of. So the easiest way is to fully convince your subject it's the right thing to do, whilst minimizing aversion to death.
...which the military DOES do, thus showing up the CIA mind-control experiments by virtue of actually verifiably happening.

Now, as for a "Manchurian Candidate"-type assassin... THAT is a whole other ballgame, and one truly fitting for debate.

EDIT: Oh, and as far as the benevolent subconscious bit... typically true, yes... however, some people have got just a little bit more going on up there... and not necessarily in a good way.

[Mutazoa]

If you can't stand seeing a dead dog, how could you even think of murdering a person? So right there is part of the problem... those 'homicidal urges' are naturally suppressed, by default... giving in to those urges without damn good reason is itself what is unnatural. The flip side is, though, that most people are self-righteous assholes. If they think they're doing the right thing, then there's no end to what they're capable of. So the easiest way is to fully convince your subject it's the right thing to do, whilst minimizing aversion to death.
...which the military DOES do, thus showing up the CIA mind-control experiments by virtue of actually verifiably happening.

Now, as for a "Manchurian Candidate"-type assassin... THAT is a whole other ballgame, and one truly fitting for debate.

EDIT: Oh, and as far as the benevolent subconscious bit... typically true, yes... however, some people have got just a little bit more going on up there... and not necessarily in a good way.

You know...I had started to type out this response pointing out the flaws in your post but then I thought "screw it" I don't have the energy to deal with it tonight.

[qv]

Well, in most cases, it's not so much an ideal that people need to believe in. All it usually takes is encouraging attachment to comrades. Most people are willing to kill for their family.

...as for what the flaws in my post are, I don't quite know what you mean specifically. Yes, it's not a popular theory, and I didn't do a very good job of saying it, I know, but I'm fine with that.

And what I meant with the part about the subconscious... I'm speaking from experience. People sometimes have dark parts to them, is all. Parts which may or may not be complicit in plotting suicide attempts.

[hypnodazed]

The person involved had quite a few hints given to him that it would be ok to use the gun

There was the earlier trial with the water pistol and nothing bad happened to him personally

He was to meet up with Mr Fry and Mr Brown after the show and Mr Fry is a friend of Mr Brown

A very strange thing happens. Someone gives him a weapon in a box and he is told it belongs to Mr Brown. How often has someone met you and asked you to look after a weapon for someone, rather than meet them themselves? In the UK people are not in routine possesion of firearms. It is hard to get a license.

He is told the theatre management knows he has it and have no objection. That implies all kinds of permission and pre arrangement. If you asked most theatres if they minded if you brought a firearm in, they would probably call the police.

[shy_girl]

I was more interested in the fact that none of the audience reacted badly, personally...

I love Derren Brown, but I think a person that's been chosen to participate in a tv show with him knows (whether conciously or subconciously) that nothing bad is going to happen. Surely that's bound to influence your mind, no matter what prompts are given.