Opinions/Thoughts on files meant to change sexual preference

[zjohns916]

I'm just really curious about it. I know that there is CFG/CFS and that people have used it on here to make changes. Why isn't there more discussion about it? I think that its extraordinarily interesting that some people have claimed to change their preference. Let me know if anyone has experience with these files or thoughts on them. I'm in the midst of Curse forced Straight right now and have no one to talk to about my little experiment haha.

[Route42]

There's a couple of major threads for CFG under the Success Stories forum.

Here's the current one for CFS:
http://www.warpmymind.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=8976

[Endo]

It all depends. Personally, I always thought I was purely straight. I've slowly become bi, then pan-sexual. I think it's easier to expand your choices, but I created a file that makes the listener aroused only by femdom (and later reported that maledom now disgusts the user). So it's definitely possible to shrink your tastes as well.

[Alien4420]

Forced Gay made me gay. It's now been over four years, a gradual process in part because I didn't want all of the effects of the file (loss of attraction to women) and tried to fight it. I've been listening again lately and changes continue to occur.

My sense of this is that sexual orientation is a combination of nature and nurture. Twin studies strongly suggest this -- if one twin is gay, an identical twin is more likely than a fraternal twin to be gay as well. But still only about 50%, which is much higher than random but suggests that half of what affects orientation is experiential.

The thing is, outside of the few of us on these groups, the discussion of orientation seems to be essentially dogmatic, with anti-gay fundamentalists on one side pretending that sexual orientation is merely a choice, and more liberal people on the other claiming that it's something you're born with and can never be changed. But if you look at the evidence, whether the twin studies or the societies that have practiced and sanctioned homosexuality or the work of psychiatrists like Anna Freud who were able to change sexual orientation, you find that sexual orientation is more complex and more mutable than most understand.

I think the problem from the perspective of the LGBT community and those who are sympathetic is that religious extremists try to bully gay kids into being straight, and subject them to all sorts of harmful reprogramming efforts to do so. And these can apparently cause a great deal of emotional damage, because, I suspect, they're being done for the wrong reason to kids who don't really want it, or who want it for the wrong reason (social pressure or the belief that they're going to go to hell).

So with both sides wanting to fight for their ideas, each wants to choose a position that suits their agenda and the whole issue gets simplified and mythologized and 99% of the public believes one side or the other. And psychology isn't immune from these social pressures -- psychologists move from the unscientific proposition (rejected by Freud) that psychology is an illness, to the equally unscientific position that all attempts to change sexual orientation are unethical. What gets lost as so often is the truth, and the attempt to understand the more complex reality, in which nature and nurture interact in ways that we still don't understand.

[rigsby]

I don't believe that CFS or CFG literally change anyone's sexual preference. Instead, the suggestions get the listeners to connect better with either their gay 'sides' or straight 'sides,' and bring them to the front of their conscious and subconscious minds. So the overall effect is the same.

If you look at Kinsey's work on sexuality, you'll see that most adults have significant amounts of both. It's mostly social conditioning that makes the great majority of people claim to be exclusively hetero.

[danny1988]

I don't believe that CFS or CFG literally change anyone's sexual preference. Instead, the suggestions get the listeners to connect better with either their gay 'sides' or straight 'sides,' and bring them to the front of their conscious and subconscious minds. So the overall effect is the same.

If you look at Kinsey's work on sexuality, you'll see that most adults have significant amounts of both. It's mostly social conditioning that makes the great majority of people claim to be exclusively hetero.

Totally agree with rigsby here.
For the record I lean towards guys but I consider myself pansexual.

You need to udnerstand orientation isnt just gay or straight its a massive spectrum and people have different urges and what they like and dont. For example a totally straight guy if there is such a thing may love anal or even have a sort of love for a friend who is the same sex. It doesnt mean hes not straight it just means that certain parts of himself are open to certain feelings and ways of thinking.

Similarly with gay people, they can find certain people of the oposite sex attractive, they may brush it off and it may not be as strong as their attraction to the same sex but its still there.

I know im not the only one who has should we say issues around certain forms of hypnosis on here and wether its a good thing or not but this is a pretty crazy site anyway.
I have things that sort of make me a bit sad or uneasy one being the cursed forced straight file. For one reason and one reason only, it seems to have personality alteration effects making you a stereotypical straight guy but I may be wrong here but thats the impression I got from it. I just see it as loosing parts of yourself and honestly it makes me a little unasy to read. Also the comments from so called formally gay people who now call gay sex discusting piss me off a bit.

Tbh I dont see the want to try and change your sexuality for society, I say fuck society its wrong and screwed. I dont like things forcing people especially when its not something they really want. If people listen to these files I want them to do it for them and not because they feel society wont accept them. But I agree society can be hard, I just think if life gives you lemons give explosive lemons back, I really dont give a flying fuck what society thinks of my sexuality. And now I seem to be annoyed at the government and society again lol.

Ive seen and researched hypnosis and spoken to hypnotherapists and other people about hypnosis in genral, what can I say when I found out all this stuff I was really inquisitive as to what it can do.
I wonder how permenant this stuff really is honestly, sexuality is a difficult thing and I dont think you can surpress certain urges and feelings forever or that its a good thing. Thats what I see these files do anyway.
If the person really really wants to be straight or gay then it may stick, but im going off personal experience some stuff sticks other stuff doesnt.

While it being an interesting concept to change someones sexuality through hypnosis, I honestly wonder how much it can change. Maybe it can help someone to accept themselves more and not be limited by thoughts or ideas that have clouded their head or basically clear out emotional crap thats confusing you as my boss put it. But with speaking to my boss who is a hypnotherapist and my hypnotherapist hypnosis cant change who you are it just changes behaviours.

That being said if being gay or straight is a core fundamental of who you are I dont think hypnosis can do much to change that, hypnosis can do amazing things but its not magic and if hypnosis really could be used to change someones sexuality permenantly im surprised all the anti-gay groups dont rave about it. That being said most gay or straight people are happy in who they are and dont want to change and so hypnosis is a none starter there anyway.

Also watch this, this is probably the reason I hate files that limit and try and change stuff like this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXAoG8vAyzI

[Alien4420]

I have things that sort of make me a bit sad or uneasy one being the cursed forced straight file. For one reason and one reason only, it seems to have personality alteration effects making you a stereotypical straight guy but I may be wrong here but thats the impression I got from it. I just see it as loosing parts of yourself and honestly it makes me a little unasy to read. Also the comments from so called formally gay people who now call gay sex discusting piss me off a bit.

Tbh I dont see the want to try and change your sexuality for society, I say fuck society its wrong and screwed.

I listened to Curse Forced Straight a couple of times when I was trying to undo Curse Forced Gay, and it didn't make you stereotypically straight. It had sort of submissive undertones, makes you want to please your partner before yourself, into pussy, etc. Not exactly typical straight male characteristics.

Not that I think it really matters. I share your unease about people changing their orientation to conform to social pressure. I have nothing against people changing their orientation, if that's what they want, but that shouldn't be because you're afraid to go to hell. In particular, fundamentalist churches have hurt a lot of people, particularly young people, with "therapy" that supposedly makes people change their orientation. People can be seriously scarred by this.

I don't however think that we should deny that orientation can be changed in some people. We know that there is a genetic or prenatal component to homosexuality -- the twin studies show a 50% component. But that's only 50%. It isn't as simple as those who posit a gay gene would like to think.

The interplay between nature and nurture in sexuality is subtler than many acknowledge, involving prenatal influences, early family experience, and social programming. We know this. Yet people are always trying to oversimplify it, generally to fit an agenda. The current fundie agenda is it's a choice, which is patently ridiculous -- a straight guy can't just say "I'm going to be into men now and not women." Well, he can say it, but it won't work. And vice-versa.

Hypnosis affects the psychodynamic level -- the programming of the subconscious which normally occurs by virtue of our interaction with our parents and society. And while it is true that we have a good deal that is latent in us and repressed, including, for most of us, sexual attraction other than our own, it is not necessary to the subconscious. No one who has played enough with these hypnofiles can suppose that it is. These files can make you turned on by things and scenarios that you never would have imagined. And you can change this way and that.

That's part of being human. We're born with instincts and tendencies, but these are mutable, as Freud observed more than 100 years ago. And what the subconscious learns it can unlearn, or at least repress.

[danny1988]

I have things that sort of make me a bit sad or uneasy one being the cursed forced straight file. For one reason and one reason only, it seems to have personality alteration effects making you a stereotypical straight guy but I may be wrong here but thats the impression I got from it. I just see it as loosing parts of yourself and honestly it makes me a little unasy to read. Also the comments from so called formally gay people who now call gay sex discusting piss me off a bit.

Tbh I dont see the want to try and change your sexuality for society, I say fuck society its wrong and screwed.

I listened to Curse Forced Straight a couple of times when I was trying to undo Curse Forced Gay, and it didn't make you stereotypically straight. It had sort of submissive undertones, makes you want to please your partner before yourself, into pussy, etc. Not exactly typical straight male characteristics.

Not that I think it really matters. I share your unease about people changing their orientation to conform to social pressure. I have nothing against people changing their orientation, if that's what they want, but that shouldn't be because you're afraid to go to hell. In particular, fundamentalist churches have hurt a lot of people, particularly young people, with "therapy" that supposedly makes people change their orientation. People can be seriously scarred by this.

I don't however think that we should deny that orientation can be changed in some people. We know that there is a genetic or prenatal component to homosexuality -- the twin studies show a 50% component. But that's only 50%. It isn't as simple as those who posit a gay gene would like to think.

The interplay between nature and nurture in sexuality is subtler than many acknowledge, involving prenatal influences, early family experience, and social programming. We know this. Yet people are always trying to oversimplify it, generally to fit an agenda. The current fundie agenda is it's a choice, which is patently ridiculous -- a straight guy can't just say "I'm going to be into men now and not women." Well, he can say it, but it won't work. And vice-versa.

Hypnosis affects the psychodynamic level -- the programming of the subconscious which normally occurs by virtue of our interaction with our parents and society. And while it is true that we have a good deal that is latent in us and repressed, including, for most of us, sexual attraction other than our own, it is not necessary to the subconscious. No one who has played enough with these hypnofiles can suppose that it is. These files can make you turned on by things and scenarios that you never would have imagined. And you can change this way and that.

That's part of being human. We're born with instincts and tendencies, but these are mutable, as Freud observed more than 100 years ago. And what the subconscious learns it can unlearn, or at least repress.

Here is my actual reply ^^
Thats honestly interesting, I guess the reason for the changes in personality come from the persons subconcious and how they think straight people act etc.
When I had a girlfriend I was the submissive one in the relationship, she even tied me up lol. Makes me giggle thinking about it xD She even asked me out as I am so shy.

There are two reasons when I think you should not use this file in my opinion, im fine if someone wants to change their orientation if its their choice or try to anyway depends on the person if it can be changed imo.
I just want them to make sure its something they want and not because of outside pressures.

1. If there is an outisde pressure to conform, whatever it may be either friends who cant handle it parents or even religion. I just find it awefully sad if someone changes themselves to fit into anothers view of how the world should be.

2. As an experiment if they are in a comitted relationship with a loving partner. I just think listing to something like this that can change your orientation while being in a relationship with someone is unfair to them. If the file does what it says on the tin then boy or girl you will not be attracted to them anymore and someone will be hurt I dont like that and I cant comprehend why people would put another through this.

I do believe orientation can be changed in some people, some it cant it depends on the person and their reasons for listening to the file. If you have a desire to be straight/gay I believe it may work as the desire is already there. Yeh I dont think its just the so called gay gene either, there are other factors to sexuality and orientation and some are environmental.

I did watch an interesting program a while back about a guy who had a stroke, after he woke up he found he wasent straight anymore he was gay. It was a really insightful documentary on how the mind works and what makes a person gay. The guys boyfriend wondered if he may turn straight again, but according to the neurologist it was sort of like pandoras box once opened it cant be closed or something like that.

Found the link :) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17703018

Yeh I do blieve there are many factors to sexuality and orientation, the brain is complex and so are we as individuals and one thing cant just determine if your gay or stright or whatever.

I definatly understand when you say we can be changed this way and that ive changed so much since doing hypnosis and having hypnotherapy im like so different from who i was last year. But still the same its weird lol.
Before I was very repressed and soley focused on one thing now im like free and so much more creative and I actually feel like im living life again. Not felt like this since the beginning of highschool really.

Doesnt the subconcious work of all our experiences from our life and use thoes when it changes us? It cant change us in ways we have never seen or experienced can it?
I know a great deal of myself was repressed for whatever reason maybe some trauma in my life casued it. But im happy to be me again and if I ever feel repressed again I know what to do :)

It can unlearn or repress I remember a topgear episode where paul mckenna hypnotised richard hamond into forgetting how to drive. The thoughts and knowledge is there but just repressed.

That brings me onto another point, is repressing your sexuality good or can it have unforseen effects I wonder?
Just I know how I felt when I was repressed I didnt feel right and something was missing, but I was heavily repressed.
Also could certain triggers in life cause the repressed feelings and impulses to return?

Thanks for the informative post :)

[Alien4420]

Here is my actual reply ^^
Thats honestly interesting, I guess the reason for the changes in personality come from the persons subconcious and how they think straight people act etc.
When I had a girlfriend I was the submissive one in the relationship, she even tied me up lol. Makes me giggle thinking about it xD She even asked me out as I am so shy.

There are two reasons when I think you should not use this file in my opinion, im fine if someone wants to change their orientation if its their choice or try to anyway depends on the person if it can be changed imo.
I just want them to make sure its something they want and not because of outside pressures.

1. If there is an outisde pressure to conform, whatever it may be either friends who cant handle it parents or even religion. I just find it awefully sad if someone changes themselves to fit into anothers view of how the world should be.

2. As an experiment if they are in a comitted relationship with a loving partner. I just think listing to something like this that can change your orientation while being in a relationship with someone is unfair to them. If the file does what it says on the tin then boy or girl you will not be attracted to them anymore and someone will be hurt I dont like that and I cant comprehend why people would put another through this.

I do believe orientation can be changed in some people, some it cant it depends on the person and their reasons for listening to the file. If you have a desire to be straight/gay I believe it may work as the desire is already there. Yeh I dont think its just the so called gay gene either, there are other factors to sexuality and orientation and some are environmental.

I did watch an interesting program a while back about a guy who had a stroke, after he woke up he found he wasent straight anymore he was gay. It was a really insightful documentary on how the mind works and what makes a person gay. The guys boyfriend wondered if he may turn straight again, but according to the neurologist it was sort of like pandoras box once opened it cant be closed or something like that.

Found the link :) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17703018

Yeh I do blieve there are many factors to sexuality and orientation, the brain is complex and so are we as individuals and one thing cant just determine if your gay or stright or whatever.

I definatly understand when you say we can be changed this way and that ive changed so much since doing hypnosis and having hypnotherapy im like so different from who i was last year. But still the same its weird lol.
Before I was very repressed and soley focused on one thing now im like free and so much more creative and I actually feel like im living life again. Not felt like this since the beginning of highschool really.

Doesnt the subconcious work of all our experiences from our life and use thoes when it changes us? It cant change us in ways we have never seen or experienced can it?
I know a great deal of myself was repressed for whatever reason maybe some trauma in my life casued it. But im happy to be me again and if I ever feel repressed again I know what to do :)

It can unlearn or repress I remember a topgear episode where paul mckenna hypnotised richard hamond into forgetting how to drive. The thoughts and knowledge is there but just repressed.

That brings me onto another point, is repressing your sexuality good or can it have unforseen effects I wonder?
Just I know how I felt when I was repressed I didnt feel right and something was missing, but I was heavily repressed.
Also could certain triggers in life cause the repressed feelings and impulses to return?

Thanks for the informative post :)

I agree completely with points 1 and 2.

I think one of the reasons there's so much resistance to the notion that sexual orientation can be changed through hypnosis is that there's a long history of abuse, psychologists and religious groups that try to "treat" gay kids into being straight. And the consequences of that kind of pressure are pretty bad. It can really screw people up.

Then too, you have some people who claim that our sexuality is just a matter of choice -- something that I think only a gay or bi guy in denial could believe, because if you told most straight guys that they should suddenly like other men or vice versa, they'd tell you you're nuts.

It can't be done just by willing it. It can be done by hypnosis, in some cases.

Not everyone is hypnotizable, and I tend to think that there are people who really are born that way -- some very fem acting guys, for example, or very butch lesbians. And then there are people who are really opposed to the suggestion and will just pop out of trance.

I'm troubled by the possibility that people will use Forced Straight for the wrong reasons -- being pressured into it by a Bible thumping family, that kind of thing.

[lew897]

Behaving a certain way by hypnosis alone like gay or straight is defiantly interesting as it confirms the idea that people can be trained into doing anything. But metacognition I presume is what people need when going into any. Its where you think about how you think about stuff. Stepping back seeing the way you think. Without this, people would be more like animals. Not using metacognition when learning something new will ultimately in my opinion leave a person never really use the information given to and keep older misleading information. My own personal experience is that while it has been wild Ive been able to become bi when ever I want. Why waste the beauty of women and the muscles of men? lol. This is from my own experience and what Ive learned from books on the mind. The mind is so expansive it literally changes structure with contact from different forms of stimuli.

[lew897]

Basically what Im referring to is using MRIs to confirm or deny how the brain works. Magnetic Residue Image basically maps out the brain, not the mind but the physical structure of the brain. With this knowledge of the brains structure we can hypothesize the function of the mind. Usually, doing one activity flares up one sector of the brain while leaving the others completely alone. Hypnosis in general can affect the entire brain at once and allows for the structure to adapt to the new stimuli and the function.

With all this technology at our finger tips and when people don't use it, I know why they still believe that their own experience with hypnosis settles the debate. Im not saying people are dumb, its just that misconceptions will always interfere with new knowledge. Hypnosis being one since it promises a lot, but going against social norms puts stress on the subconscious to manifest easy effortless changes.

[Ryan83]

I guess I will know for sure if this stuff works soon enough. I'm in talks with a hypnotist to undo CFG once and for all. If I can get back to who I was (God willing, there is no other acceptable option) then I'll know for sure it was the hypnosis that did this.

[Endo]

Ryan, if it was hypnosis, then being totally straight wasn't you. You have to be willing to undergo the change, and usually it takes a lot of work to change into something you don't relate somehow to. Also, what's the situation? Is there family pressure to undo your "gayness"? Religious pressure?

[Ryan83]

There's no family or religious pressure. I want to get back to who I was before this file. I will never be happy until that's done.

[WME3]

If you're looking for an answer to find yourself,
A good place to start is where you came to the conclusion you had to go back.

What did the realization stem from?

[ftslave67]

Agree pretty much completely with the wisdom of Alien4420 & Rigsby. With the caveat that (in my opinion) if the conscious or especially the subconscious mind doesn't want to change, it may not be possible. There's a lot of anecdotal evidence that "reparative therapy" (what the fundies call a "CFS" transformation") tends not to work. Guys would go straight for a while, but end up coming back to the gay. I don't think it's just political that the gay population disdains that sort of thing. It can be harmful to young, impressionable minds.

[ftslave67]

Agree pretty much completely with the wisdom of Alien4420 & Rigsby. With the caveat that (in my opinion) if the conscious or especially the subconscious mind doesn't want to change, it may not be possible. There's a lot of anecdotal evidence that "reparative therapy" (what the fundies call a "CFS" transformation") tends not to work. Guys would go straight for a while, but end up coming back to the gay. I don't think it's just political that the gay population disdains that sort of thing. It can be harmful to young, impressionable minds.

[lew897]

Im confused now, are we talking about CFS on this site or other peoples beliefs. Like the church, the government, the radicalists, who exactly are we talking about? Or is it in general with no details? Because with no details, its pretty easy to say yep your pretty much what your born. Are we talking dna, xx, xy, xxy, hormones, or what they think they are in their thoughts. Because hormones can be completely ignored by disorders so a xy can look female because of his body doesn't take testosterone, so hes gay if he likes men? Or just hormones that affect the brain and leave a person with a different brain from their body? Or just that a person who is a hermaphidite is gay no matter what. So, all in I really have no clue as to what being gay really is and isn't...

[Alien4420]

Im confused now, are we talking about CFS on this site or other peoples beliefs. Like the church, the government, the radicalists, who exactly are we talking about? Or is it in general with no details? Because with no details, its pretty easy to say yep your pretty much what your born. Are we talking dna, xx, xy, xxy, hormones, or what they think they are in their thoughts. Because hormones can be completely ignored by disorders so a xy can look female because of his body doesn't take testosterone, so hes gay if he likes men? Or just hormones that affect the brain and leave a person with a different brain from their body? Or just that a person who is a hermaphidite is gay no matter what. So, all in I really have no clue as to what being gay really is and isn't...

I think you aren't alone in that, since none of us do. About the only thing we know is that it's half genetic -- an identical twin who is gay is 50% likely to have a gay twin, but that's less true of a fraternal twin. But since identical twins have the same DNA, it doesn't seem to be *entirely* determined by genes. Gene expression may have something to do with it -- we've recently learned that that can be inherited -- but it could also have to do with environment. Something seems to make some people more likely to be gay.

To make things even more complicated, most of us seem to be versatile. Kinsey found that few people are entirely straight or gay -- most of us have some bisexuality mixed in. And society seems to have a major effect on whether this is expressed or not -- in some societies, like the ancient Greeks and Celts, most guys actually preferred gay sex to straight sex.

All of this gives hypnosis a lot of room to play in! If society can have this strong an effect, why not hypnosis? Since it's basically doing what society does naturally.

Personally, I suspect that in our traditionally homophobic society those were gay had something strong pushing them in that direction -- differences in brain structure of the kind you mentioned, what have you. Otherwise, who would willingly accept the discrimination? That could be where the genes come in. And that something might make them more resistant to a change in orientation than most of us. Also, while I gather some gay guys have changed their orientation here, it may just be that they wanted to do it for better reasons than the guys who get trapped by religious fanatics or, in a less enlightened age, psychologists. If your family and mates reject you, if you're threatened with damnation by your Church -- well, these aren't exactly "healthy" motives.

It may also be that people who are "naturally" gay are that way for different reasons -- different genes, different environmental factors -- and would react differently. There have after all been reports of successful change for quite some time -- Freud's daughter Anna was able to change orientation in at least some cases. And I read an article about two leaders of a deprogramming cult who said they had different experiences -- one said he admitted he couldn't change, the other said he was able to. And, of course, some of us are more susceptible to hypnosis than others -- that could be a factor as well.

[obey_evolution]

My 2 cents. If you are a straight guy and start a conversion to genetic female, the female sex hormone flooding can "change your track" for a while. It might becomes permanent if you successfully change gender, but I'm just guessing. I know it sounds a bit corny, but I think that love overrides sexual preference as IMHO sexuality is a sliding bar more tied to hormone levels than anything else. If hypno training moves the slider by changing hormone levels, perhaps only a genetic change can permanently change your hormone levels (without medication). I'm likely just BSing BTW.[/b]

[Alien4420]

Unlike animals, though, humans don't seem to have a simple link between the sex hormones and sexual orientation. If you give an animal of either sex it will display male rutting behavior, if you give either sex estrogen it will display female sexual behavior. But in human beings, who are always in heat, sexuality works differently and this doesn't occur. Testosterone will make us hornier, more confident, and more aggressive, but it won't make a gay guy straight. Similarly, estrogen reduces the male sex drive and makes a man more feminine -- more emotional, nurturing, apt to cry, etc. But it doesn't turn a guy gay.

Since hypnosis can change orientation, at least some of it is in software. But there's more to the story and it isn't yet understood. One intriguing observation is that some guys how have taken propecia for hair loss or prostate enlargement report that they develop gay impulses. These persist after you stop using propecia. It doesn't seem to turn them gay but it points to hormonally-induced changes that aren't yet understood -- propecia blocks DHT.

I guess I should add that I took it myself for a while and it definitely had lasting effects but they aren't the kind anyone would want so I don't recommend that anyone play with it in an attempt to jigger their sexuality, or for any reason at all.