2 Questions

[busboy]

1) I'm running a month long repetition of TrigArousal (*pause* EMG Rocks! *unpause*) without triggering it until the end. My slowly growing concern is that, during the file playing, I am absolutely unaroused (sorry EMG -- I'm sure you're sexy and all but you're a little too, well, male for my tastes).
I'm green as the freshly mowed grass on the subject, but my perhaps naive understanding was that the effectiveness of the post-hyp suggestions was keyed in some way to a sort of Pavlovian subconcious reaction -- train the subcon to associate phrase "X" with state "Y". Will there be any possibility of effectiveness if I'm never aroused during the trance? It seems the whole point of the descriptors is to bring forth the particular feelings and/or memories that we're trying to post-hyp trigger, and if I never experience them during trance will the clinical understanding of my subcon to create a certain feeling (arousal) be enough for it to actually create that state?

2)I've had some moderate success for myself with self-created inductions and deepeners. The more I work at it, the more I'm noticing that my files seem to base heavily on using a *snap* sound (especially with my re-trance PHS) to emphasize a command ... something I don't think I've heard on a single file here. I recognize that it's a very stage hypnotist sort of device, but does it's utter absence from the files here indicate that the (far) more knowledgeable people here recognize some inherent problem with using a "startle" sound, or is it just a matter of style? If using the sounds is inhibiting the proper state of mind (and therefore the work done while under trance) then the sooner I correct it the sooner I can do something more productive.

Thanks in advance to any advice or suggestions, and "suck on eggs" in advance to any flames.

GO PATS!

[MN_FriendlyGuy]

Welcome aboard, busboy.

You've recognized that you have a liking (an affinity) for suggestions that are emphasized with a fingersnap. That's excellent progress. Thanks for trusting enough to say what's going on inside of you.

Speaking for myself (only) - in the role of hypnotist, I try to keep things simple so that a recording will be positively internalized (accepted) by a majority of listeners.

Thanks to your message, I've uploaded a 1-second soundclip here on WMM... the sound of a fingersnap. Now all you need to do is mix it into your favorite mp3s.

The best to you as you explore and grow!

[busboy]

thanks for the kind words (unless it was some voodoo text-induction)!!

I hadn't thought about there being no snapping sound files here. I dug up a few clear ones from some sound effects sites that I'm happy to pass on if you/members/WMM would like them (three sound files uploaded, 100 files downloaded . . . seems fair).

Can you offer any suggestions re: the trigarousal? Am I going to have to start splicing some saucy sounds into the file, or should I just rely that the file will accomplish its goals regardless of my reaction during the trance? I'm hesitant to splice more sounds in because between EMG, some binaurals, a subliminal file, and a "distractor" sound file, it's rapidly approaching the point of being more noise than useful.

[MN_FriendlyGuy]

Grinning here. When you've got a nickname like "FriendlyGuy", attempting an uninvited voodoo text-induction would be bad!

You asked about suggestions for trigarousal. I'm not familiar with that recording. More than that, I don't know your background. With those two limitations, it's difficult to give a specific recommendation.

Here's a generalized recommendation... Keep it simple and uncluttered.

Since you know how to splice files together, consider making a few different customized versions of trigarousal for yourself. In one, add just the 'snap' to EMG's recording - nothing else. In another, add just the "saucy sounds". In another, add just subliminals.

Then, take a couple of weeks to listen. Each time you listen, select the version that appeals most. As you figure out which version you like best, you'll be moving closer to your goal.

The best to you.

[baby_jessica75]

for a suggestion that may help (maynot I am not extremely knolagable with trigger files= or any others for that matter!) if you are looking for a true Pavlovian experience is it possible that if you say the trigger ( either in your head or outloud) while you are becomming aroused at other times than listening to the files maybe it would help to reinforce the trigger?

[busboy]

@baby_jessica:
I had toyed with that idea (using trigger during consious arousal for association), but ended up shying away from it.
This whole bizzare little experiment came about from a conversation on the chat channel with Rogue and Wildsprite. As a total rookie to hypno, I was expressing frustration with the fact that I was seemingly able to reach trance, but couldn't accomplish anything beyond that. I had been attempting to elicit some form of physical reaction to hypnotic instruction (stage behavior like "baloon lifting your arm"), but couldn't get anything to happen. The closest I could get was my post-hyp trigger to re-trance . . . it doesn't put me under, but does cause the same sensation as a "head rush", as if I stood up too fast while hyperventilating.
The suggestion was made to focus on one trigger, and Rogue had mentioned he had success with people using the TrigArousal file. Given his stated success with it, plus the fact that the intended effect (trigger phrase gets you aroused) seemed relatively easy to create (as opposed to, say, trigger phrase makes you think you're a robot), I decided to focus on it. The reason I'm not going to test it for a month is to give it time to absolutely sink in (or not) -- trying it without any effect only feeds into frustration and doubt for me.
All this backstory is to explain why I decided not to try associating the trigger outside of the trance. If I go that route, and presuming the trigger works in a month, then I'm going to be asking myself whether the trigger worked because of the post-hyp command or because of the association made during non-trance, which then leaves me back at square one (does this stuff actually work?).
I started exploring hypnosis as an extreme skeptic, and while much of that doubt has been eliminated (my being able to go into trance and the effects of the post-hyp "sleep" trigger shocked the hell out of me), I'm still left debating with myself whether hypnosis can go (for me, at least) any farther than the equivilent of deep focused meditation. Although I tend to assume stage hypnotism is bunk, the apparent ability to create a strong enough command to either cause a physical reaction (freeze, your nose is super-sensitive, etc.) or a mental one (believe you're driving a car, you're a robot, etc.) is something that facinates me, and I'd like to see if it's actually achievable with hypnosis or if it's just wishful role-playing on the part of the subjects. Thus, the test . . . if I can get one trigger to actually work, then I'll be convinced -- more complicated triggers and effects would then just be a matter of degrees. If I can't get a post-hyp trigger to actually work . . . then mabye for me hypno will never be anything but a form of meditation. I'm deeply hoping that's not the case as hypnosis in theory offers both great practical opportunities (I'm ADD, and being able to intensify my ability to focus would be a godsend) as well as purely entertainment value (being able to get turned on with the snap of my fingers wouldn't be something too unwelcome :D ).
Anyway, sorry to blather on. My deep thanks for the suggestion.

[busboy]

@Friendly Guy:

Hmmmmm . . . good advice. Thank you.

I've been going with the combined files because I made my frist "breakthrough" --successful trance and semi-succesful "sleep" trigger -- imediately after I tried using stiched together files. I had proceeded on the assumption that the combined files deserved the credit, but it could have just been a matter of fortuitious timing.

Now let's see, which file do I like better . . . snapping sounds, or the moaning and groaning of people in the throes of pleasure . . . decisions, decisions . . . 8)

[MN_FriendlyGuy]

Thanks to your message, I've uploaded a 1-second soundclip here on WMM... the sound of a fingersnap. Now all you need to do is mix it into your favorite mp3s.

The 1-second soundclip of fingers being snapped has been deleted.

[busboy]

Thanks to your message, I've uploaded a 1-second soundclip here on WMM... the sound of a fingersnap. Now all you need to do is mix it into your favorite mp3s.

The 1-second soundclip of fingers being snapped has been deleted.

Thanks for the heads up. I've got a few snap sound files, so the deletion won't effect my filework.

If anybody is looking for a snapsound file, pm me and I'll send it (pretty small file).

[EMG]

Hmm, this leaves me wondering if I should add a category for hypnotic sounds(things to mix with files to help with trance). I'd have to insist they be public domain, but there's still plenty of that. Any thoughts anyone?

Thanks to your message, I've uploaded a 1-second soundclip here on WMM... the sound of a fingersnap. Now all you need to do is mix it into your favorite mp3s.

The 1-second soundclip of fingers being snapped has been deleted.

Thanks for the heads up. I've got a few snap sound files, so the deletion won't effect my filework.

If anybody is looking for a snapsound file, pm me and I'll send it (pretty small file).

[SDoll]

Well if it doesn't cost you extra and it's not to hard why not? :)

Hmm, this leaves me wondering if I should add a category for hypnotic sounds(things to mix with files to help with trance). I'd have to insist they be public domain, but there's still plenty of that. Any thoughts anyone?

Thanks to your message, I've uploaded a 1-second soundclip here on WMM... the sound of a fingersnap. Now all you need to do is mix it into your favorite mp3s.

The 1-second soundclip of fingers being snapped has been deleted.

Thanks for the heads up. I've got a few snap sound files, so the deletion won't effect my filework.

If anybody is looking for a snapsound file, pm me and I'll send it (pretty small file).

[cardigan]

With regards to the first post - about whether it is necessary in trance to have the subject become aroused in order that the subconscious mind can "learn" the response it needs to deliver when triggered:
It is not necessary. The subconscious is asked to produce a certain response to a trigger. But if you demonstrate the reaction in hypnosis first, you stand a better chance of getting the subconsious to understand exactly what is expected. However with some things this isn't necessary - if they know exactly what you mean already. Example: I once told a female subject that upon her awakening she would feel that a powerful, but small vibrator was embedded in the skin right beneith her clit, and that she would feel it vibrating and vibrating until she came - no matter what. I didn't make her feel this vibrator at all during trance. Just told her about it, and her subconscious told me it understood and accepted this. Then I woke her up and started a simple conversation with her - smalltalk - while watching her become more and more flustered, red, excited and unable to keep up a normal conversation. In the end she just cried something like "What did you do to me?" as she came.

It doesn't matter if the trigger is a sound or seeing an object on the street. A trigger can be anything. Snapping your fingers is a signal, which can be replaced by other signals too. But there might be one advantage to a snap: it tends to disorient the conscious mind, which brings forth the subconscious mind more. So at the same time as working like any other trigger, you get the added plus of it making the conscious confused or disoriented - perhaps sending the client deeper and giving better access to the subconsious mind - IMHO. When doing hypnotic regression and hypnotherapy, it's very common to sort of gently tap on the forehead of the subject for exactly these reasons. But as we can't do that in files, a snap would perhaps be good instead.

[busboy]

Much thanks for the information, Cardigan

I had presumed the subconcious could follow the instructions without actual stimulus because of scenarios like the one you described. My concern was growing because during the file while the speaking never quite comes out and gives a direct instruction for arousal he certainly suggests it strongly, and the failure of the suggestions to spark any reaction in me were causing me to doubt how effective my trance state was. The more I read about hypnotism (currently slogging thru Trancework by Yapko and some of Dr. Erikson's manuscripts) the more it becomes apparent that simple suggestions ("your hand is getting hot" as opposed to "you never want another cigarette again") during trance should/do produce measurable reactions -- that certainly seems to be the impression from the readings, at least. This leads me to think either I'm not actually reaching an appropriate trance state or there's some other X factor that's keeping the trancework from proceeding properly (something missing, something additional that shouldn't be there, or just me doing something incorrect). I'll find out in a few weeks if my concerns are overblown, I guess.

In regards to the snap sound, one of the suprising benefits for me is the physical reaction to the sound. With headphones, especially when relaxed, a sharp snap creates phantom "ripples" across my body, which encourage the post-hyp reaction by stimulating a physical sensation in conjunction with the sound. I was so suprised I started experimenting with just a snap sound (no command and no trance), and noticed a little shiver when I hear one that had never been apparent to me before (but only when its out of context, in a quiet surrounding as opposed to dropping it into the middle of a war movie).

Again, thanks for the insight and knowledge.

[baby_jessica75]

busboy do you think that maybe it is possible that your worry over not getting aroused during the file may have caused you to think about it too much while listening and caused you not to be able to relax enough to trance very well and maybe that was halting your progress? just a thought I don't know much about alot of this but at least my input is free (so if you want a refund let me know I can afford to refund free!)

[cardigan]

If during a trance session, you start wondering whether you are in at trance or not, you are

a) going out of trance to access your conscious mind, that it may evaluate the situation. This is a trance breaker. Just go with the flow and don't be havin' those thought! :-)

b) implanting a very powerful suggestion in your mind that you are probably not in trance. Hence any suggestions given to you will not work: You are NOT in trance ERGO the suggestions won't work.

So try not to evaluate and try also to have a positive mind. Imagine in your mind that the suggestions are working and expect them to work!

[busboy]

@baby_J and Cardigan:

No doubt you are both right. The only time I can stop thinking about things is when I'm unconcious (I gots the ADD bad) . . . one of the eventual planned payoffs to all this study was hopefully being able to kick the cranium down a few gears. In my homemade files, I've been putting in as much background/secondary noise as I can tolerate just to give my attention something to drift to . . . the necessary pauses in the speaking are like fingernails on a chalkboard to me.
The reassurance that its not something to worry about certainly helps, so again thanks for that Cardigan.