Which are the best file to support my anti-potty training?

[linus]

Hey you all hypno enthusiasts,



I am looking for a file, that can help with my unpotty training. I am wearing diaper 24/7 now for many many years and would like to take the next step and make myself more diaper dependant. So I am doing all the usual stuff that is recommended in the 12 month program. But I am still looking for the right hypnosis file to support this. Maybe someone of you has a tipp for me.

I am struggling with all the files, that just say "you are in trance now, you will wet yourself unconsciously"; because, well .. I still feel my bladder very strongly and I simply cannot trick my mind that this will go away magically. So this really isn't working for my mind.

I am looking more for a reassuring file that is working on two levels:

reassuring that i do identify myself as incontinent with all the consequences;
e.g. I always say to myself, if you feel the urge to pee, when you are not wearing a diaper(like after the shower before diapering), you have to still keep your sphincter open and just pee on the floor. YOu are incontinent, so you will always keep the sphincter open, you will always wet yourself, even without a diaper. But there is still a psychological barrier that is holding that back, until I am safely diapered again. As soon as this is the case, I start wetting almost automatically. So it would be great to have a file, that is supporting me with just wetting wherever I am, wether in a diaper or not.
focussing on the physical aspects of the unpotty training.
I try to keep the sphincter open at all times, but sometimes this is hard,sometimes at the end of a pee, I cannot help but to clench, unconsciously. And I would be looking for a file, that is focussing on that sphincter area, and let me focus to specifically relax this area, encourage me to keep it open all the time, and tell me something like "you cannot not control your sphincter, so just leave it open, you dont even have to try to control your sphincter, because it will not work. So just relax". I think something like this would really help me to advance with my training.
I hope that anyone of you knows files that go in this direction. I would be hugely thankful.

I have some files from wohermiston that go in this direction, like the Bladder relapse file. I quite like this, and even though I listen to it regularly, I feel it doesnt fully do the trick for me.

[wohermiston]

You can see the problem here though right? You are not incontinent. Continence is something that is controlled from a separate part of the brain called Barrington's nucleus.
There is no way to reach that with hypnosis to the best of my knowledge. Now, I have experienced a bladder behavior where I pee every minute or so, and this is intriguing, but it never lasts for more than an hour at best. This is not what I would call incontinence, but it is close. I don't know what makes this happen though. And maybe we should look further into it. I have grown to understand though, that simply getting you into trance and telling you something is not going to work if your subconscious knows it to be untrue. I say you are incontinent, your subconscious will rebel "no I am not!" I think it better to consider that you intentionally wish to wet yourself and find a good reason for it. A good enough reason must be provided to overcome subconscious rebellion. Have you tried my latest file called Falling. This begins a new approach for me and you might find it interesting. WOH

[linus]

Hello Wohermiston,

thanks very much for replying. Of course you are right, I am not (truly) incontinent and someone telling me that I am, will not change that much.

I am wearing for several years now, and though I still realize when I have to go, the frequency of wetting has been dramatically shortened over the years. While back in the days I was able to hold it for hours without a problem, now I hardly can go through 30-60 minutes without going to the toilet, if I don't wear a diaper. So, to be honest I wouldn't dare to go out on a longer trip without a diaper, because I wouldn't be sure to find a toilet in time. So I start to consider myself truly incontinent, not in the way, that I have no control at all, but more in a way that I need protection, in case I don't make it in time.

My goal is to have less urge and wet more naturally in even smaller volumes and ultimately go into the direction of dribble without even realizing . Did I understand you right, that for achieving this, I would have to trick Barrington's nucleus?

I was relistening some of your files again today, and they really come closest to what I need. I really like your approach especially in the Bladder Relapse and the Peescription file. Do you think it makes sense to listen to both files alternately or are they contradicting in some ways.
I was thinking, maybe I can try again on a daily basis to listen to the forgotten Baby induction and then one of the two files afterwards and see how it affects me after a couple of weeks. What do you think, would that make sense?

[wohermiston]

hi,
I think one file should be enough really. My style and beliefs have changed a lot over the years I have been dabbling in this. So, it is interesting to see you reference my first ever file and to mix it with later ones. But if they seem to work, no harm I guess. I think it's great you are seeing some results. Barrington's nucleus is the result of evolution. Which is why I tend to think that it is very difficult to overcome it. Erickson makes the point that to get a result, the conscious and sub conscious mind must come to an agreement. That is why I always try to find positive approaches as compared to negative ones. Understanding how to make the bladder open with smaller amounts is still a puzzle to me. There are some who say they can maintain their bladder sphincter in a relaxed nearly open state at all times. I wonder how they are doing that? I know that when I purposely tried to void every 15 minutes as an experiment, that was actually very tiring and I found it difficult to keep it up. Yet, as I mentioned in my prior message, there are these rare times when my bladder will just release a small amount every few minutes for about an hour maybe, and then it stops. And so I wonder, is the bladder releasing pee as it comes into the bladder? Or is the bladder actually full enough to flood, but instead is sending it out just a little at at time? Only a sonogram would answer that question I guess. I know some will talk about bladder shrinkage, but I am not entirely sure that really happens. I don't know exactly why your confidence in holding for long times has changed, but that could be the files doing that. I don't think the urge sensation will ever leave you. The only way to eliminate that would be to have a urinary stent installed. People who use indwelling catheters report having no sensation or urge. Stents have been tried with nursing home patients as a way to minimize bladder infections from indwelling catheters, but they come with their own risks. I only mention that because I stumbled on a research paper online about it.
Remember though, that what is natural, even for a baby is for the bladder to fill and empty, not to dribble or send out small amounts, that is not natural. Those who are incontinent typically have nerve damage that does not follow the normal fill and release behavior. So long as you are healthy, your bladder wants to fill and release. that is the natural process. As you age, sometime around 2-3 years old, Barrington's nucleus becomes active and now the natural process gets interrupted with a conscious option to stop and hold it. A bit of rambling on my part, but this is as much as I know about how all this works. WOH

[linus]

Thanks Wohermiston,

it is really interesting to talk with you about it, and hear your views on this.
Yeah, it seams I like more of your older work. I think they are quite well in line with the suggestions of the 12 month anti potty program. Even though there are like a million files promising on making you incontinent, or unconsciously wet your diaper, there are actually very few that really fit, if you are following the 12-month program.

As I said before, I dont follow the program by the detail, just taking the big ideas and combine it with my experiences. The core is to keep the sphincter open, as you said. I also read of some people who seem to have no problem to do it, and that achieve results in a few months. I am struggling with this. I also find it hard to concentrate to keep it open at all times, and while there were times i was very focused about it, there were also times where I did not so consciously worked on it.

I was once listening to the peescription when going for a walk. So I wasnt really in trance, I just used the file as a kind of a motivator. But it worked at that moment. I was totally getting the open bladder management, and was pretty sure, I could almost endlessly keep the sphincter open. I didnt stick with listening the file regularly. I kind of forgot after a week or two. I also think, that it wasnt really just the file itself, but also the fact that I realised about the shortened times between my wettings. But the combination really made an impact on me,

There are acutally two physical things I do sometimes, that help me with my "open bladder management".
There is a ton of pelvis exercises to prevent incontinence, but there are also some about pelvis relaxation. I felt back then quite some tension in my pelvis area and felt the bladder cramping, when I needed to pee. So I tried with those pelvis relaxation techniques and it really helped me to loosen up. It is a combination of some yoga techniques sepcifically for that body area.

Another thing that I try to exercise, when I need to pee, and feel a stronge urge and my bladder starts to cramp, I do diaphragm breathing techniques, which lets me relax my bladder and avoids the cramps. It also lowers the urge, but even though I start to pee a couple of seconds later. I try not to push though, rather let it come naturally.

I found also that what I thought was "keep my sphincter open" is actually rather "pushing pee out actively". So I tried to find that "relaxing my sphincter" state which is actually much harder than I thought. It is like a toned down version of the "pushing pee out", but still avoiding the clenching. The more I do the diaphragm breathing and the pelvis relax yoga, the easier it is for me to achieve this state, but tbh I am also still struggling. It is kinda hard work sometimes.
There are times where I am supermotivated and others, where I just dont have the attention to focus on these things.

So, that said, your files are among the few that really go in that direction to support when you are actively trying to unpotty yourself. So, many thanks for that. I am not really sure, if I will ever reach that state of constant dribbling, as some others report. Your explanation that filling and releasing is natural behaviour of the bladder makes a lot of sense and while I do believe that my bladder capacity might have shrunk in the last years of constant diaper wearing, I am really not sure, if I can overcome that feeling of urge.

Take care,
Linus

[wohermiston]

Thanks for that. It's all very interesting. Remember that the natural state of the bladder sphincter is closed. I remember someone posting a story about getting Botox shots into the sphincter. That left him with no control for about a month before it wore off. That is about the only way to experience incontinence. I think I was trying to do that hypnotically with bladder relapse. But I have come to see these sort of things as "role playing" more than true hypnosis. All we can do is keep searching for new methods. WOH

[linus]

something like injecting Botox would be a bit too much for me, I guess even though I would love to try how it feels to really have no control over the bladder. But making such a medical procedure still sounds risky and I guess also no doctor will be available to do this.

The same goes with the stent. I would probably try this, if I would know a person, who offers to insert me one for a month or so. But doing it on my own is just too risky for me.

[ashes1334]

Yes! I think no file will do this. To me, 2 conditions must be met. Number 1 a really good supply of diapers, be it disposable or reusable. Number 2, using them. Can you cut yourself from using a regular toilet? Problem is diapers, as much as anyone loves or wants to admit, are less convenient. This is where hypnosis fails. As much as we want it to be true, consciously or subconsciously we know it's not. In the day to day grind of working, shopping, visiting family, friends, etc. So, to anti potty train, one must be 100 percent comfortable that it is less convenient but in some way better. If you can get there, and cut yourself off the toilet, then hypnosis can help motivate you on this path. But it, solely, will not flip a the cliche switch. Which, makes me fucking laugh, pardon the language, of everyone I see a comment where someone gives one listen and says omg I'm incontinent now! what do I do? It doesn't work like that.

[linus]

Hi Ashes,

thanks for your reply, I absolutely agree with your points. Unless the two points your are mentioning are not fulfilled, hypnosis will not work.
For 1: I do have a very good supply of diapers. I always store a couple of packs or cartons of diapers and stuffers, so I always have a bit of a choice.
For 2: I use them since a long time. As said, I am wearing 24/7 for the last 7-8 years and also using them of course for my pee mainly.

So, I know what it means to be in diapers and how it affects your day to day life. I was not really looking for that magic switch that does it from one day to the next. I am aware that it takes months and years to really unpotty-train yourself. As I have written above, I now see some effects that the frequency of my wettings is getting more often and often.
I feel that listening to a hypnosis file can be helpful just to keep motivation up, and remind yourself for the goal, and also remind yourself to still do the techniques that are required for the training. So, that was the reason why I was asking. I was wondering, if maybe someone else also did the same program and which hypnosis files, they used to support them.

So, I am still very curious for other suggestions.

[ashes1334]

I wouldn't mind some suggestions myself. That being said if you do find a file you like, studies show that for hypnosis to be effective you must listen once a day for 28 consecutive days. Would be a good experiment! Good luck if you do.

[lilpat80]

I remember someone posting a story about getting Botox shots into the sphincter. That left him with no control for about a month before it wore off. That is about the only way to experience incontinence.

Wohermiston, do you happen to remember if this story was posted somewhere here on WMM, by chance? I'd be interested in talking to the person who wrote it. I'd be willing to pay a significant amount of money for that procedure, and I actually legitimately do deal with detrusor/sphincter dyssynergia due to a spinal cord injury so it would help me anyway

[wohermiston]

hi,
It was a long time ago, but I think it was on the original Daily Diapers website. But I cannot be 100% sure. I don't suspect it would be to get a urologist to do this. As I seem to remember, he had a friend/urologist who was willing to do it. As I noted, it is only temporary. There was also a research paper online where a stent was used in nursing home patients. The problem with stents, is that they can become blocked. But they are less likely to cause UTI's when compared with indwelling catheters.

[urquan]

hi,
It was a long time ago, but I think it was on the original Daily Diapers website. But I cannot be 100% sure. I don't suspect it would be to get a urologist to do this. As I seem to remember, he had a friend/urologist who was willing to do it. As I noted, it is only temporary. There was also a research paper online where a stent was used in nursing home patients. The problem with stents, is that they can become blocked. But they are less likely to cause UTI's when compared with indwelling catheters.

I know someone personally who has had the muscle that controls the voluntary sphincter cut, leaving him with only unconscious control so his bladder fills/releases without him thinking about it. But it took talking to several therapists, trying all other available options, and finding a supportive urologist.

[diaperbrian]

My bladder and bowel works only on it's own.

[brownbobby]

I know someone personally who has had the muscle that controls the voluntary sphincter cut, leaving him with only unconscious control so his bladder fills/releases without him thinking about it. But it took talking to several therapists, trying all other available options, and finding a supportive urologist.

This is likely me, and it's *exactly* as you described. Unsurprisingly, getting approval for a medical procedure that makes your continence WORSE isn't very straightforward...though it is possible. The cruelest irony is that after all this, I still wasn't fully incontinent--my subconscious pelvic floor decided to seize up and not pee at all, requiring physical therapy to make it work "properly" again. Fun times!

If you're considering pursuing medically induced incontinence, I definitely advise trying other things first. But if you're still interested afterwards--and in the 18+ month process of getting to the procedure--let me know.