Horomones

[aliciaJohnson]

:?: i am just recently beginning my female transformation and i was wondering what good horomones or herbs there are

[jnorcros]

Alicia,

I too have resently started my transformation. I suggest that you check out Myevanesce.com. [http://www.myevanesce.com/] The site has a wealth of information on herbal hormones. I have found their site to be very helpful and Dianna, the site moderator, seems very knowledgeable and staight forward.

They don't promise overnight results but do set some realistic expectations. I have been taking Evanesce and Feminol for 6 weeks now and it definitly seems to be working. I suggest you send some time reading their forums.

Good Luck! :)

Janice Marie

[Kellylee]

If you are really serious about feminization of your mind and body you need real prescription hormones as herbals are a waste of time and money. Real prescription drugs are actually cheaper. check out this yahoo group for real info. TsDoItYourselfHormones@yahoogroups.com It has alot of good information and not just marketing propaganda. The female hormones are estrogen and progestin, and you need a testosterone blocker as well for real and fast results.

[jnorcros]

I am not trying to hype herbal versus chemical soarces. What I suggested was in direct response to the original question. Below is an example of the type of input you get from the site I suggested. I am a senior engineer in the communications field and believe me I recognize marketing hype.

Janice Marie
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Question
"I read on another site today that herbal hormones prevent drug hormones from working properly if taken together. Any truth in that statemment?

response
There is an insane level of mythology that gets repeated over and over, copied from website to website, about herbal things.

And those bits of mythology are strengthened by a medical community
which has historically ignored the role of nutrition -- food, plants and berries -- in managing health and in healing and in creating physical changes in the human body.

All of this is analogous to people who routinely use nicotine and alcohol,
then making grandeous statements about how bad marijuana is for the human body and mind. (disclaimer: I personally do not use any of these, never have)

When people worship drugs/chemicals for any use, they will fight against anything that is different from drugs. For example, the natural forms of sugar are listed as "bad" to consume, so for example we are given Splenda -- sugar molecules which are modified by the addition of two chlorine molecules, despite chlorine being deadly to the human body...
..we are given aspartame, (the sweetner in most Diet soda pop, etc) which is an addicitve chemical and a mind altering drug, repeatedly rejected by the FDA for human consumption until Donald Rumsfield forced approval for it via "back-door" deal making...

"Out there" in the world of free exchange of ideas and beliefs, there is a total disregard for independent verification of facts. For example, there are things called xenoestrogens ://www.answers.com/topic/xenoestrogen which are indeed endrocrine disruptors, also sometimes called psuedo estrogens.
But in marketplace of ideas, these substances have become confused with, and linked to, phytoestrogen. psuedo estrogens/xenoestrogens block cellular hormone receptor sites. Phytoestrogens feed those sites.

Even the term phytoestrogen has become tainted with modifiers, such as calling them "weak estrogen", when there is never any other explanation as to the difference between "weak" and "normal" estrogen. Bear in mind that the hundreds of different types of hormone molecules which the human body makes and uses, are all just "keys" which open the "door locks" within various human cells, so that the individual cells can receive nourishment and "do their thing".

Some cells need very specific "keys" to be inserted into their "locks" in order to open, some cells are master keyed and many different hormone "keys" can open them. This is for example, why breast cells do not function much under the influence of testosterone --
testosterone molecules are the wrong "key" for breast cell "locks"....
and breast cells multiply when there are elevated levels of estrogen available. A key made of plastic can still open a home's door lock, as easily as a key made of brass... so "weak estrogen" is a strange bit of terminology.

The proof is in the results, however. There is no doubt that herbal-based estrogens can femininze a body, when used properly. And THIS is where the problems arise. Over the past fifty years of T'Gender history, many people have gone to herbal shops, Vitamin Cottage, etc., and purchased bottles of estrogenic herbs to try to feminize themselves. And in virtually every case, nothing was taken to first suppress testosterone. Even near-lethal dosages of drug estrogens will not feminize a body until testosterone production is suppressed. Eventually, after several months to a year or more on pure drug/chemical estrogen, testosterone production can be overcome, but this is the dirty secret of drug estrogen users -- that initial results may take more time than believed... and many could make the statement that "drugs don't work" if they used the same standards for results as people who believe that "herbs don't work".

There is also the issue of quantity and insufficient information:
Many people think that taking 500mg daily of Dong Quai, for example, should bring feminization. Many people believe that Dong Quai *IS* estrogen.But when that usage does not bring immediate results,
they do not say that Dong Quai alone did not work for themselves, they say "I tried herbs and herbs didn't work".

Evanesce and Feminol are vastly different from just bottles of store herbs. These are formulated from extracts of the active ingredients of the various estrogenic -- estrogen resource -- herbs and berries,
which are formulated and concentrated in specific ratios determined by German research to bring the most synergystic potency from each ingrediant; i.e, "this" herb combines to make "that" herb work better, etc
And Evanesce and Feminol also contain ingrediants to suppress testosterone production.

Finally, many people do take Evanesce along with drug hormones, because of its testosterone blocking capability;they feel that the drug hormones work better and more quickly in this combination.

We have 16+ years of worldwide experience to prove that properly formulated herbal mixtures DO work effectively, especially when taken properly.

Personally, I prefer years of proven results over esoteric theories, any day.

[Power_of_the_glory]

1. There is little to no scientific proof that herbal supplements work
2. Chlorine is a deadly gas, what is your point. Table salt is composed of chlorine and sodium and it is still a vital substance for life. (there is no proof that splenda is unhealthy for you)

[ruinix]

Well, I've been on evanesce for about 2 weeks now.
I dont do very much feminization hypnosis, and I make sure to keep the placebo effects down, but I'm noticing a significant psychological difference.

Seriously, I'm feeling intensified emotions, my mind has become "lighter" and more chatty, and its becoming increasingly more difficult to become erect.

Note, this is at 2 weeks, and I'm pretty young, but still- thats alot more than I was expecting so soon.

Oh, and Glory's got a point about the salt thing.

[Kellylee]

The herbal products you are using I cannot really comment on. Herbals I tried began to make some changes but it took a while and the changes were limited. But when you can get an estrogen that is "bio-identical", ie chemically identical to that in the human body, then why do herbal plants or horse derived estrogens?

Evanesce costs $16.00 - $32/ month or $14/month for 2 mg of progynova from Inhouse which is prescription estrogen? And Estrogen Valerate is in itself a testosterone blocker.

If it works for you long term, great. Otherwise check out the TSdiyhormones noted above. The site provides alot of information about transition hormones.

Kellylee

[leathernick]

If you are really serious about feminization of your mind and body you need real prescription hormones as herbals are a waste of time and money. Real prescription drugs are actually cheaper. check out this yahoo group for real info. TsDoItYourselfHormones@yahoogroups.com It has alot of good information and not just marketing propaganda. The female hormones are estrogen and progestin, and you need a testosterone blocker as well for real and fast results.

The correct address is http://groups.yahoo.com/TsDoItYourselfhormones.html

[jarvisteflon]

Thank link doesn't work either.

[jarvisteflon]

nevermind i found it

[ruinix]

Ok so that particular brand is cheaper, but what about health concerns?

Estrogen can lead to liver damage, but the arguement for herbals is that they somehow circumvent this.

I think the arguement is that they promote your body's own natural production of estrogen, but I may be wrong.

Oh, and I'm convinced that Evanesce works. My best friend, whom has a 'nose' for feminine pheromones, walked into my room for the first time in a few weeks, and immediately asked me who I'd been sleeping with, because my room smelled of woman.

I'm the only one who's been in here.

[Kellylee]

Whatever you use, please do your homework. What may work for one, may not work for another and may injure yet another. That is why I posted the above tsdoityourself site, so you may talk to experienced gurls who have a incredible about of knowledge. WHo are you? Where do you want to go in life? Who do you ant to be? All of these questions play into your decision making. be safe. Be smart. Live life.

Huggs and kisses.

Kellylee

[jnorcros]

I couldn't agree with Kellylee more! Whatever path you choice, please please do your homework. I bought a book in the early 70s because the title impressed me so [never actually read it since it couldn't teach me more than the title had already] "I may not be much baby, but I'm all I've got"

Improper use of hormones can kill you!

Huggs and good luck!

Janice Marie

[ruinix]

So, Kellylee, Are you taking Progynova? Does it really block the testosterone enough to create physical changes by itself?

[Kellylee]

Yes, I have and if you take enough sublingually it helps block testosterone, but most ts girls also take a blocker such as finasteride, spiro or androcur, to help out and to maximize estrogen effects. Some also take progesterone to help with breast development. Only take the estrogen sublingually, the others don't matter. It absorbs directly to blood stream minimizing the amount swallowed and going to the liver. I am not a doctor, nor pharmacist, so do not take this as medical advice. Consult your own sources first.....

[asdf]

I would suggest that anyone looking to take hormones get under professional care. First, you can get hormones with medical insurance. Plus, you have the blood work and professional opinion to monitor your progress. This cannot be accomplished at home without a significant amount of equipment and rigorous monitoring practices. Yes, when I was a teenager, I took self-medicated prescription hormones. In reality, it's not as dangerous as one would lead you to believe. Adverse reactions to estrogen therapy are rare for the most part. It is strangely comforting, but by far not the correct way to go about it. Without knowing where your hormones stand right now, you will not be able to prescribe yourself the correct drugs and take the correct dosage. So you may get comfort, a nice girlie feeling, and some development -- you probably won't drop dead, but overall you would get much better results under medical care.

Herbal hormones on the other hand are an ENORMOUS waste of money. Their mechanisms are not well understood. The science behind them is rather lopsided. While biological women may find some relief from typical girlie problems, these herbs may not have the same effect on the male body. For all you know, you could be working against yourself. Plus, have you ever heard of a transsexual going through transition with only herbals? Even if you get some development, it will hardly be enough to justify the cost.

Also, the prescription hormones are better understood from a health POV. Herbals are not necessarily safer, and any competent (read: not trying to sell something) naturopath will tell you that. The best way to minimize the damage of HRT is through a good diet, a probiotic complex (important for estrogen therapy), maybe a multivitamin, and lots and lots of vigorous exercise.

[Cathyb59]

asdf,
I would echo your advice strongly.
It's been 24 months for me. every 6-9 months I get blood drawn, and tested.

Herbal hormones have such miniscule amounts of effect, taking them as
directed may help you feel better but provide limited physical feminization. I wanted to ensure for the risk, I would see more benefits.
Well, I have. Changes seem slow until the first time you put on a T-shirt and your breast outlines are clearly visible you'll get a Huge feeling of the permanence.
After as short as 6-9 months, changes to your body and brain can be irreversible. Granted they won;t be large, but they are there forever.
Skin, hair, nails, all improved vastly in my experience..
There's a LOT of mental/emotional changes you'll never see coming.
So, if you do it, good luck. Remember over dosing HRT has been proven to have negligible effect on how Femme you become, and how fast.
Don;t want to discourage anyone - HRT has been the best thing in my adult life. Just read a bit, and be informed.
Best of luck. May your femme reality be realized.
Cathy :D

[ruinix]

We dont understand Quantum Mechanics very well either- but it shapes our universe.
Yes, I have heard of transexuals doing it on herbal hormones.
I know they are not working against me because I am growing breasts, My hips are widening, and my emotional state is far improved.

Not saying that you dont have a point about medical supervision- but please, dont paint a picture that is grossly false, like herbs don't work.

[Cathyb59]

Ruinix,
I think we are closer to agreement on this than on first blush.
I didn;t say herbals don;t work - I have friend who used them with success. I believe her. That simple.
Since herbal can be produced sans FDA standards, it is harder for herbal retailers to control the strength of the product.

In my case, for the risks related to HRT, I needed to make sure I'd see more benefits. Family history of health issues linked to HRT made me need to use the smallest, safest dose to better my odds.
(injection monthly - you'll use almost all of the hormones injected cause they go into your muscle/bloodstream, foregoing the liver)
If you see results and feel results good for you.
So, welcome to the club - Or should you welcome me? :D

[sailor2005]

I have been taking the following for seven years;

6 mg estradiol daily (Estrofem or Progynova)

10 mg of progesterone (Provera)

200 mg of Spironolactone

I started to notice tenderness behind my nipples within three weeks.

My nipples grew from practically non-existent nubs to the size of my little finger in about three months and were almost permanently erect for the next year.

The aerolae expanded and darkened--from the size of a nickel to the size of a silver dollar. My breasts grew from typical male chest (flat) to a full B cup in about 9 months. That's when I had to start wearing a bra.

I did a ton of research. It was inadequate. If you want to know more let me know.

[Deej]

I'm not sure if this is actually on the topic at hand; but this was the closest I could find to it: I heard there are actually hormone injections, and they work more effectively than pills. Is this true? And does that mean they're costly? Do they end up having worse effects? Or less? Again, sorry if it's off topic :/

[lips69]

i too would like to know the answer to Deej's question.

[CeeDee]

probably more than you actually wanted to know

http://www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=12114

and

http://www.transgendercare.com/medical/resources/tmf_program/default.asp

[azumi]

here some great link also about hormone

http://www.sissify.com/juice/

http://www.secondtype.com/breastdev.htm

http://www.secondtype.com/hormones.htm

http://www.secondtype.com/regimen.htm

hope it can help everyone ^^

[VeryGnawty]

I've done a lot of research on the human body, and what affects it. I don't think herbs alone can make massive changes to the body. If they were combined with diet, it might work. But nobody knows the best diet for feminizing the body.

At least, not until my research is complete. I have some theories I'm kicking around. I just need time for the research. If I'm right, I am going to revolutionize the way people think about the human body, and what they choose to put inside of it.

I think the old adage "you are what you eat" needs to be taken quite literally. I'm convinced that at a biochemical level, there is a lot of truth to that statement. I need only to prove it.

[patj]

"the old adage "you are what you eat" needs to be taken quite literally"

I guess that makes me cheap, fast and easy! :oops:

[VeryGnawty]

I guess that makes me cheap, fast and easy! :oops:

Probably.