Feminization / Out-of-Body Experience / Switching Bodies

[loony28]

sadiechan there is a phenomena known as NDEs, near death experiences. What it is is the body dies and is brought back to life. While the body is dead and there is no conscious activity people have reported that they were out of their body. The have described what goes on while the doctors try to revive the person; what they said, what they did, and even what other people outside of the room were doing at the time. The argument against this is that the dying brain just makes up this as a way to ease the pain of dying. That is not scientifically possible as when the brain is without oxygen for longer than ten seconds (I could be mistaken on the time but it is a very sort time frame) it flat lines, no brain activity what so ever. The brain can not proccess any information during this time and these experiences last for quite awhile while the body is dead and the brain is receiving no oxygen. So what is it that is experiencing this if the brain is unable to do so?

[Kalendaine]

Sadiechan - to put it in different words: who are you? Are you the flesh-meat-muscles-bone bag that everyone sees? Are you the brain behind it? Are you the spirit who animates these things?

The body can be tricked. It can be fooled into moving without any stimulus from yourself. Electrodes can make your muscles move. Given enough electrodes or control points, your body could be made to move on someone else's will. Is it still you if you can't control it?

The mind can be tricked. Electric pulses within the brain can mimic certain sounds, feelings, experiences, memories. Given enough electrodes, or controls, those feelings and experiences can make up your life, and you might never know the difference from reality, where you are sitting in a chair with the top of your skull open. Is it still you, this thing that interprets what you experience, no matter how real?

What is spirit? Can it be tricked? I'm not so sure.

Aside: I'm also looking forward to your post, Tauryn.

[sadiechan]

sadiechan there is a phenomena known as NDEs, near death experiences. What it is is the body dies and is brought back to life. While the body is dead and there is no conscious activity people have reported that they were out of their body. The have described what goes on while the doctors try to revive the person; what they said, what they did, and even what other people outside of the room were doing at the time. The argument against this is that the dying brain just makes up this as a way to ease the pain of dying. That is not scientifically possible as when the brain is without oxygen for longer than ten seconds (I could be mistaken on the time but it is a very sort time frame) it flat lines, no brain activity what so ever. The brain can not proccess any information during this time and these experiences last for quite awhile while the body is dead and the brain is receiving no oxygen. So what is it that is experiencing this if the brain is unable to do so?

Well this is an interesting one. Especially since there's no proven medical explanation for near-death experiences. There have been links with a type of sleep called REM (rapid eye movement), and this is funnily enough linked again to hypnosis. I think that it's a phenomenon not currently explainable, but it does not prove a projection-of-self.

There are a lot of possible explanations which are difficult to back up, but more likely than an actual projection of a spirit. I would suggest that one explanation is that the mind is more active than we understand in flatline EEG activity. After all, the brain can go 5-8 minutes without oxygen before sustaining damage.

It does though make me think of one dream I had when I was about 5, and I was looking down on me and my parents walking through the city, I was about 2. Forget "true" out-of-body experiences, I've had a few in my dreams and they're strange. Why do we so often have dreams like this?

Sadiechan - to put it in different words: who are you? Are you the flesh-meat-muscles-bone bag that everyone sees? Are you the brain behind it? Are you the spirit who animates these things?

The body can be tricked. It can be fooled into moving without any stimulus from yourself. Electrodes can make your muscles move. Given enough electrodes or control points, your body could be made to move on someone else's will. Is it still you if you can't control it?

The mind can be tricked. Electric pulses within the brain can mimic certain sounds, feelings, experiences, memories. Given enough electrodes, or controls, those feelings and experiences can make up your life, and you might never know the difference from reality, where you are sitting in a chair with the top of your skull open. Is it still you, this thing that interprets what you experience, no matter how real?

What is spirit? Can it be tricked? I'm not so sure.

Please don't be offended, but I'm not sure where you're coming from here. The fact that our bodies and even our mind can be tricked, can percieve different realities, is not proof for the existence of a spirit or soul.

What is a soul or spirit? If we're trying to include science in our answer then it must be something that makes the person who they are that is independent of genetics and environmental influence and therefore it is probably independent of body and mind. Sadly there is no proof to suggest that our actions, everything that makes us who we are, from birth to death, cannot be attributed to genetics and environmental influence.

I had this debate with a Christian friend (who is one heck of a debator), and at the end of the day we both agreed that we couldn't agree because one of us believed in a person having a soul and the other did not.

I'm not suggesting this of anyone here but it is quite romantic, optomistic to believe in a soul. In the same way those who believe in God have faith and optomism, while those who are aethist or agnostic are often seen as pessimistic and cynical. But I often think that a lot of people rely on believing in God and in souls, it gives them something to keep going. There is nothing wrong in this, and in my darker moments I like to believe in both, it is something to hang on to. But with my rational thinking cap, I demand proof. And on the notion of God, souls and Harry Potter, they're all just something someone wrote in a book until I've seen proof! Okay, that's a little unfair, but my point is made hopefully.

I think another key thing to remember is that just because something cannot be explained by science it does not mean it exists out of it. We just don't understand it. So in conclusion, regards the near-death experiences, there's no explanation. Neither the medical explanation or the explanation that means in actuality an OOB experience was had have proof and as such neither can be offered as an explanation. Innocent until proven guilty!

[Tauryn258]

My apologies, One and All.
After much debate, pleading and groveling, my High Priestess has decreed that I shall not continue this post. I'm sorry, but Coven does not disobey the will of their High Priestess. She has bidden me to tell you 4 things however:

1. The Astral World is a VERY dangerous place, there are both wonders as well as horrors the likes of which you have yet to imagine. BE CAREFUL!!

2. Remember; the most powerful weapon you possess on the Astral Planes is your Astral Voice. Given practice and will it can shred a legion of daemon with a single shriek.

3. Your Astral Body is not bound by physical limitations. Travel at the speed of thought at will throughout the Multi-Verse, whether it be past, present, future makes no difference. The possibilities are endless. You are your only limitation.

And Finally, if you ever find yourself in trouble on the Astral Planes... think of your feet. Don't laugh. Your feet are symbolically the one constant of your physical body that is always in contact with this Earth. Thinking of your feet will bring you back quickly.

The rest is up to you. We will say no more other than Good Luck and Be Careful.

Signed,
Lady Tauryn
(@ the behest of the High Lady Gwenuph)

[iron_blade]

I'm sure you could just create a hypnosis file for 2 people to listen to that will make them beleive that they will be in each other's body. For 1, I'm sure that its possible since i can make myself beleive with 1 phrase that i'm a bimbo, robot, cat, doll, or slave. 2, if switching bodies is at all possible this definately proves less a risk. I definately suggest recording a file like this one! it truely is a great idea

[MacGyver]

with all this talk of astral travel, and leaving your body and all, i forget the name of doign it but, wouldnt that be like how someone could use thier mind to go through a building and see what someone esle is doing and see their location?

[Follower]

Anyone ever seen the movie Skeleton Key? It reminds me of the ending. I've had this theory that the character that switched bodies with the main character didn't really do it, but only convinced the other person to believe that she was the other person, and vice versa. I think someone else raised this question throughout the book. But...like he said, this raises a lot of moral questions.