Metaphysics

[makidas]

I'd love to hear from any Pagans, Wiccans or Metaphysics oriented people here.

[VeryGnawty]

I'm a pantheist.

But....what would you like to hear?

[sandy82]

Makidas, have you got a site reference or two, if they're close at hand. I want to learn something about the topics. Many thanks!

BTW, nice new digs! :)

I'd love to hear from any Pagans, Wiccans or Metaphysics oriented people here.

[Zerakis]

The astral pulse forums are a great source of info for metaphysics. www.astralpulse.com

[sandy82]

Thanks, Zerakis. I'll take a look.

The astral pulse forums are a great source of info for metaphysics. www.astralpulse.com

[loadedkaos]

I'm not sure what you expect to hear makidas. But here are some links for those who are interested. Spiral nature is probably the best one if you just want to get some basic info.

http://www.spiralnature.com/
http://www.chaosmagic.com/
http://www.occultforums.com/

[makidas]

I'm not really expecting to hear anything, I was simply looking to meet some like minded people.

[makidas]

Also, here's a pretty comprehensive website Sandy. http://www.crystalinks.com/

[sandy82]

Thanks, Makidas. I have some reading to do!

Also, here's a pretty comprehensive website Sandy. http://www.crystalinks.com/

[makidas]

Hi, I was going to try one of those lottery programs from downloads.com. Lotto logic pro to be exact. Anyways I fell asleep punching data in my new comp. When I awoke, there was and still is a beautiful green praying mantis on my screen. Anyone have any insights on what this might represent? I haven't seen a mantis since I was maybe 9 or 10 (now 21), I love these guys, I had him following my mouse cusor a little while ago.

[sandy82]

Makidas, some people have all the luck. You have a green praying mantis on your computer screen. I had a squirrel under the hood of my car, chomping on the electric wires. He did leave me some peanut shells. :roll:

[adverse6]

The entirety of metaphysics is unfounded conjecture - but don't take my word on it; learn about Hume's negative argument on causality for yourself.

[loadedkaos]

The entirety of metaphysics is unfounded conjecture - but don't take my word on it; learn about Hume's negative argument on causality for yourself.

Who says it has to be founded? I live my life by my delusions and every body else lives their life by theirs just because science can't or hasen't proving what we term as "metaphysical" as real doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Alot of what we define as actually science fact is really just theory where most every one witnesses the same effect. It could be that electricity is magic because the electron theory is just that theory maybe when we can develop microscopes that can view the space that atoms fill we will see nothing more than even more enlarged surface of an object. Then again maybe not.

http://www.electronics-tutorials.com/basics/electron-theory.htm

I don't disagree with people entirely that the metaphysical is just a spiritual cock up which is why I state my right to beleive my delusions above.

[makidas]

The entirety of metaphysics is unfounded conjecture - but don't take my word on it; learn about Hume's negative argument on causality for yourself.

Yup, and Jesus was the son of god.

[sandy82]

Adverse6, the tone of your comment is more interesting to me than the content. It seems contentious, as though you were already in a fight that nobody else knew had started. In addition, it sounds as if you are leading with a glass chin. Not the best gambit in a brawl.

4.

The entirety of metaphysics is unfounded conjecture...; learn about Hume's negative argument on causality... .

I'll get back to your views in a moment. I'm still interested in your confrontational state of mind. You've been a registered user since April 4. Your prior three posts all occurred within the past week, and they focus on problems with downloading files, the utility of files, or broken links to files.

=========================================
1 Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 12:42 am

Those links are now broken. Anyone have them reposted/rehosted anywhere?

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2. Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:41 pm

I have joined the group, and found no information about the files. My Yahoo id is adverse66, you can see that I am in the group - can anyone message me how to get the files?

=========================================
3. Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:10 pm

I have used cockslave many times, going under and subliminal, with very little results (I'm already bisexual so it's hard to tell). I have trouble with all files, though - I don't think I'm really going under, just sorta relaxing and that's it.

=========================================

Has your discontent with the files spilled over into irritations with philosophy as well? If so, a broad and noteworthy jump.

Back to Hume. I assume we are talking about David Hume (1711-1776), the Scottish philosopher-economist who spent some years in France and apparently returned home without fleas or syphilis. But from your sparse identification, it might just as easily be the superannuated preppy, Britt Hume, formerly of ABC News and now of the Murdoch AgitProp Network.

Let's go with David. Why should someone who died 229 years ago be the last word and truthsayer in even one branch of a changing field like philosophy? I'm sure there's been a nihilist or two since then who thought that both metaphysics and Hume are nothing, based on nothing.

I suspect you are talking about metaphysics in the sense that Hume would have used the word: unproven Aristotelian first principles and epistemology leading neatly into theology and religion. I don't think Hume-era metaphysics is the focus of this thread.

FWIW, I agree that Aristotle's first principles are like a cat chasing its tail. My primary objection is practical: first principles lead to a priori reasoning, which leads to supposedly unassailable premises and thence to debates that are won before they start...because the premise, as stated, often dictates the result. That's no fun.

I see a general proposition on which I think almost all of us can agree: "The entirety of ________ is unfounded conjecture."

Fill in the blank with <<the sloganeering and propaganda of the Bush Administration>>. :wink:
.

[gurlbidesign]

Hmm, very non religious here, more of a existstencialist with a liking for the pagan 3 fold rule and their one directive to hurt no one instead of 10 thou shalt nots. But one mans religion is another mans belly laugh as Heinlein once said and I fully support anyones right to rub blue mud in their naval and dance around backwards naked if that is what they need to do.

[gurlbidesign]

I woke up this morning and put some metaphysics in a bowl, then I poured milk over them.

[Ceot]

My gods dont talk to me.
Just expect me to realize the lessons they reprisent.
Then do rite in my life.

Weird since i,m a Satanist.
How the hell did egyptian gods get mixed into this any ways?

Not that I mind.
Haveing the darker Satanists and the brighter Satanist at a party,
Mixed with followers of Bask and all those other pagan gods is.....

Well it makes for a most interesting evening.

[dgrade]

Our curiosity with the metaphysical often gets the better of us. It is amazing how much more power we have in our imagination than in our verse.

I have found it to be very rewarding to explore the realms of the metaphysical with a scientific approach. It is a uniquely personal experience though, and you will have to make the exploration on your own. Not even the wickedest man in the world would want a bunch of jackasses running around with free will twisting the nipples of fate.

[SubmissMe]

I think we need to apply Ayer's verification principle to this topic.

Or if not, in the words of wittgenstein "Whereof we cannot speak, we must remain silent."

[hailtheprinceofdarkness]

Metaphysical? what could you hope to do with that?

I dunno.... Sounds like someone's got an agenda. I don't dabble in metaphysics myself, and i advise you not to either. Only people who have a mentor that they can rely on ever really "get out of the jungle alive." As a general rule, I like to not bother things that could make me drive off a cliff.

[nuit09]

The entirety of metaphysics is unfounded conjecture - but don't take my word on it; learn about Hume's negative argument on causality for yourself.

Hume, eh?

hummmmmmm!


Immanuel Kant was a real pissant
Who was very rarely stable.

Heidegger, Heidegger was a boozy beggar
Who could think you under the table.

David Hume could out-consume
Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel, [some versions have 'Schopenhauer and Hegel']
And Wittgenstein was a beery swine
Who was just as schloshed as Schlegel.

There's nothing Nietzche couldn't teach ya
'Bout the raising of the wrist.
Socrates, himself, was permanently pissed.

John Stuart Mill, of his own free will,
On half a pint of shandy was particularly ill.

Plato, they say, could stick it away--
Half a crate of whisky every day.

Aristotle, Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle.
Hobbes was fond of his dram,

And René Descartes was a drunken fart.
'I drink, therefore I am.'

Yes, Socrates, himself, is particularly missed,
A lovely little thinker,
But a bugger when he's pissed.

[PhyllisKRue]

Interesting, Interesting...

I would ask, are you guys old enough to have seen Monty Python in the original? Or is this syndication?

Being married to an engineer, I suggest leaving things that are God's to God, and applying Akam's Razor to the rest.

Hugs,
PK

[SubmissMe]

No, Hume's name was mentioned in that song and not his rather brilliant view on causality. If you ask really nicely, I'll explain it for you :lol:

[nuit09]

Interesting, Interesting...

I would ask, are you guys old enough to have seen Monty Python in the original? Or is this syndication?

Being married to an engineer, I suggest leaving things that are God's to God, and applying Akam's Razor to the rest.

Hugs,
PK

I started watching in the late seventies or early 80s. so i assume it was early american syndication.

[nuit09]

Nothing "unreal" exists.

Or put another way any concept which can be expressed exists in some sense of the word in some mode of being. purple unicorns therefore "exist." therefore the following statement is false: 'The "inexpressible thing" does not exist.' because i just named the "inexpressible thing." That which has a name exists.

"nothing" is forbidden. all is permitted. Hail Eris!

[SubmissMe]

That's not what I understand to be Hume's view on causality.

[nuit09]

:lol: No, it wouldn't be...

[Luperci]

Metaphysical? what could you hope to do with that?

I dunno.... Sounds like someone's got an agenda. I don't dabble in metaphysics myself, and i advise you not to either. Only people who have a mentor that they can rely on ever really "get out of the jungle alive." As a general rule, I like to not bother things that could make me drive off a cliff.

The only problem with a "supposed" agenda here with people who "dabble" in metaphysics can be GENERALLY summed up in a single word: fear.

I would like to elaborate on this for just a brief moment. Most people do not understand "metaphysics" very well if at all. Humans as a whloe oft tend to fear what they do not understand. The attitude that dabbling in metaphysics could somehow cause a person to drive off of a cliff is simly obsurd. the reasoning for this is thus: while we admit that hypnosis does work, does it really cause us to do something that we did not already want to do on some level? Let me illustrate this point just a wee bit. We all agree that in order for hypnosis to work we must want the changes to occur on at least some level of our being. Therefore is it possible that hypnosis will cause us to do something or behave in a manner when there is absolutely nothing in the way of wanting on our part first?

The Newburry House Dictionary of American English defines metaphysics thus: the study of the nature and reality of knowledge

Society often adds a little bit to this definition to include things which we believe that exist, but can not be quatified scientificly. I do accept the addition of society to this definition for the simple reason that there are many things that do exist in this universe that science as it stands can not quatify. Only about 200 years or so ago we had no way to even prove that "air" esited.

The assumption that delving into the realms of metaphysics can cause someone to "drive off of a cliff" remains to be absurd to me. As a practitioner of the magical arts for the last 13 years, I have seen and experienced many things that science of today would be forced to claim does not exist. The reasoning for this is simple: for the current scientific method to work everything must be able to be quatified in some accepteable manner. Energies that emmenate from dieties can not be quantified by science in any manner that is accepted across the entire scientific community.

[SubmissMe]

So, to sum it up in two words, "Eliminitave Materialism".

I have always found that as somewhat of a get out of jail free card myself. It provides an escape rather than an explaination.

[Undisclosed]

I've read a great deal on these metaphysical arts and toyed with a thing or two myself. There are a few things that are credible and many that are not. Most of the effects I see are a result of self-brainwashing. If you believe something will happen, after a while your brain will alter it's perceptions to make it seem real. Of course, it's all in your head, and while that can affect your body, it's not an external manifestation. Hypnosis operates in a similar fashion.

On the other hand, I have no doubt of a spiritual realm having witnessed it's existance myself. My collective family history is full of spiritual events and accounts. It may be possible to interact with this realm, I find it unlikely due to the mallebility of perception. There's often no way to tell if it's in your head or not.

Of course, someone here who is suitably adept may prove me wrong, and I welcome them to try. You know, send a spirit to visit, disturb my thoughts, help me on my upcoming exams, etc... :lol: Honestly, I don't think anything will occur.

[Jacara]

A lot of the stuff that you can't know whether it's in your head, is good to try to test if you can get with someone else who's able to do the same things (or thinks they are).
For example, if you think you can talk to a spirit in your house, then get someone else to try and compare notes - see if you come up with the same information on the deceased.
Or if you think you're decent at reading minds, then sit down with someone and go through a deck of cards, trying to guess them. See if you do any better than random chance. Then have them guess your cards while you try to "send" them the information. See what works and what doesn't, and don't be afraid to practice.

No reason you can't bring scientific methods to the metaphysical.

[Alikava]

I am in agreence with most of the people posting. I for one have found Metaphysics to be very real. And though I have not read up on Hume(yet) I will say that there is still many things that science cannot explain. I for one find that I can transfer my energy into another person to aid in the healing process. Say what you will about that, but to clarify, Not all of the people I have helped knew I was trying to aid in healing so it was not a psycolojical thing. All the subject knew was that I put my hand on the injury and the pain went away.

[yaar]

I think you may have a faulty view of metaphysics here. Metaphysics is, by definition, the philosophical study of existence and being. then again, you may be using a different definition I don't know of, or using it in a context I missed.

[phryne]

i'm a buddhist.

all is mind.

[HotCurves]

I see this subject was brought up long ago, but I'll go ahead and give my two cents worth.

Metaphysics examines the nature of reality, including the relationship between mind and matter. Personally, I've had my own interesting experiences regarding mind/matter connections. Sometimes I have been able to purposely bring about these connections through intention, other times it has been something that just "comes over me."

Quick examples:
Playing a poker game with 5 players, asking them to lay their cards face down as I ran my left hand over all the cards and telling each and every one of the other players exactly what their cards were, both number or face plus the color or suit. They didn't play with me much longer.

Watching a brand new episode of "Biggest Loser" and stating out loud for the record each and every players amount of weight loss for that week before the show aired the results, being incorrect by one pound with only one of the players.

Accessing the healing energy that anyone can learn to access and influencing other's energies measurably, including immediate mending of a client's broken bone.

Having what I now refer to as one of my "knowings" and realizing I could communicate with another person's mind, giving mental commands to an unsuspecting co-worker. I had him doing out of the ordinary things until he looked so confused about his behavior and got so upset with himself that he looked like he was about to have a meltdown and wanted to leave work early. (I realize this can be viewed as unethical, but I had to test it out multiple times in multiple ways without the person knowing, so that I could be certain I wasn't giving him any outside influence and that this was real.)

Many other verified experiences in telepathic communication with people both in the room with me as well as out of state.

I realize no one here knows me from Adam, so it is still just the word of a stranger, but do a little reading on such things then give these things a try yourself and maybe you will find you have a new talent to develop. Not understanding the science behind how it works doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[stephiebaby]

"but do a little reading on such things then give these things a try yourself and maybe you will find you have a new talent to develop. Not understanding the science behind how it works doesn't mean it doesn't exist."

Yes do a little reading, and not just from believers. You will find that no one has been uble to prove thier superpowers even exist. Forget about not understanding the science behind it, they have never been able to prove the existence of such things.
From your claims it should be easy for you to prove your "abilities". There is a lot of money you could win, and you could finally bring respectability to these "abilities".