The Hate Post

For discussing Anything and Everything.

Moderator: EMG

The Hate Post

Postby GrimIronMan » November 9th, 2006, 9:29 pm

Just go on, post things you hate!

No, neither me or this thread count.

As for me: People who force their beliefs on someone. Whether it be vegans, religous people, or anything (no offense to vegans or religous people.) I'm talking about people, lets use vegans, for instance, who walk up to you while I was eating meat in a buffet (I kid you not), and they walked over to me and gave me a long, boring speech about how eating this piece of meat was going to drive cows to extinction and how if I kept eating, that I should realize I was murdering so many cows just by eating meat. I almost wanted to shove it down his throat and watch him squirm in disgust :twisted: .

Also, crazy religous people. Quote from an email I got (also mentioned on snopes.com):

Target Stores have decided to ban the words "Merry Christmas" in their stores starting this holiday season. Please sign this petition, which is about this important issue. The American Family Association is calling for a national boycott of Target Stores on the day after Thanksgiving (the busiest shopping day of the year), please join in...do not shop at Target! Let's get the message across that you cannot take Christ out of Christmas, even if you are trying to hide the very words Merry Christmas!


Seriously, what the hell? They didn't "ban" the words. They just didn't use the word "Christmas". They used "holidays". There is more than one religion, folks. "Let's boycott Target because they said 'Happy Holidays!' instead of 'Merry Christmas', even though they might be Jewish, or Muslim, it's obvious that my beliefs should surpass theirs, because (Choose: Christianity is better or I am the customer)."

No offense was meant in this post. :?

GrimIronMan
GrimIronMan
Regular
Regular
 
Posts: 48
Joined: July 31st, 2005, 12:00 am

Postby missypuss » November 10th, 2006, 2:28 pm

In the Uk we have this thing called Guy Fawkes Night...

"Remember Remember the Fifth of November,
Gunpowder Treason and plot......" Its a "great?!!" British Tradition

I hate the fifth of November as its an excuse for crazy teenagers in the UK to purchase and throw random fireworks around whilst drinking huge amounts of beer.

I think you can see why I hate it? :roll:
missypuss
Guru
Guru
 
Posts: 627
Joined: April 18th, 2005, 12:00 am

Postby Lissar » November 11th, 2006, 6:56 pm

I hate when people are really bent on wishing me a happy Chanukah and not a merry Christmas just because I'm Jewish. Chanukah is a minor holiday that is pretty boring, to be honest. And I would love to have a merry Christmas. Besides, a lot of people who say, "Wait, you're Jewish, so happy Chanukah!" forget that the Jewish calendar is lunar, and so half of the time, Chanukah is already over.
Lissar
Mentor
Mentor
 
Posts: 104
Joined: August 23rd, 2005, 12:00 am

Postby Jacara » November 12th, 2006, 8:26 pm

I hate any abuse of power. Corrupt cops, the Mafia, greedy politicians, religious leaders who make it a sin to disagree, parents who mistreat their kids... a lot of things really get to me, but I've found that 90% of them fall under the broad heading of "abuse of power".
Jacara
Mentor
Mentor
 
Posts: 191
Joined: December 17th, 2005, 1:00 am

Postby Dog » December 2nd, 2006, 11:27 am

Jacara wrote:I hate any abuse of power. Corrupt cops, the Mafia, greedy politicians,

religious leaders who make it a sin to disagree,

parents who mistreat their kids... a lot of things really get to me, but I've found that 90% of them fall under the broad heading of
"abuse of power"
.


A word about sin:

Sin is acting in such a way that you show you do not love your neighbor as much as you love your self, and that you do not love God. That is all the Judeo-Christian law in its entirety. You may perform any act you can conceive as long as it demonstrates love for all of your neighbors. Now when pastors and preachers specify certain acts as being non-loving and are speaking to rein in bad behavior are they abusing or using. The guilty coscience always seems to rationalize his rebuke. The town prostitute is justified in calling you a sinner when you pay her just as is the nun who may see you in your sin. A verbal rebuke for sin is a warning sent from God calling you to repentance. Just as the part of your post decries corrupt police, gangsters and elected officials and thus warns them of their sin, the religious leader of every stripe warns every sinner.

The sermon does not make the sin
The human heart that lurks within
Moves the hand to smite
And the sinner to fight
The rebuke than calls him to enter in.

God bless you and keep you in peace.
Consider the dog, he toils not,... but Solomon, with all his wisdom, did not get to sleep on the sofa all day.
Dog
Regular
Regular
 
Posts: 23
Joined: April 13th, 2005, 12:00 am

Postby Jacara » December 3rd, 2006, 12:09 am

Dog wrote:Now when pastors and preachers specify certain acts as being non-loving and are speaking to rein in bad behavior are they abusing or using.

Their definition of "bad behavior" can get pretty broad. I was referring to the way you're made to feel like less of a Believer if you have different values or priorities than the preacher, as if the preacher is so in-tune with God that to disagree with him is a sin.
I don't go to church anymore so I'm not in a position where I need to listen to an "authority's" judgement; my own conscience is all the guidance I need to know whether I'm on the right path or not.
Jacara
Mentor
Mentor
 
Posts: 191
Joined: December 17th, 2005, 1:00 am

Postby Dog » December 4th, 2006, 9:52 am

Jacara wrote:
Dog wrote:Now when pastors and preachers specify certain acts as being non-loving and are speaking to rein in bad behavior are they abusing or using.

Their definition of "bad behavior" can get pretty broad. I was referring to the way you're made to feel like less of a Believer if you have different values or priorities than the preacher, as if the preacher is so in-tune with God that to disagree with him is a sin.
I don't go to church anymore so I'm not in a position where I need to listen to an "authority's" judgement; my own conscience is all the guidance I need to know whether I'm on the right path or not.


Have you sold all you have and given it to the poor?
Dog
Regular
Regular
 
Posts: 23
Joined: April 13th, 2005, 12:00 am

Postby Jacara » December 4th, 2006, 11:24 am

If I had I wouldn't be able to talk to you here :P
I'm gonna leave this conversation now, it's getting pretty weird. :roll:
Jacara
Mentor
Mentor
 
Posts: 191
Joined: December 17th, 2005, 1:00 am

Postby Lissar » December 4th, 2006, 12:00 pm

Sin is a loaded word. I don't like it. I keep it out of my vocabulary for the most part. It's not so much Judeo-Christian as it is Christian, at least today. I hadn't even heard of original sin until I was about 13 years old. It was because I went to a baptism, and not because I was writing my D'var Torah about Genesis.

I hate when people talk about their religions as if they were truth when they're nothing more than opinions pretty much based on nothing. I freely admit that there's no evidence to point towards any sort of higher being, and yet I go to services regularly. I see no conflict.
Lissar
Mentor
Mentor
 
Posts: 104
Joined: August 23rd, 2005, 12:00 am

Postby Whiskers » December 28th, 2006, 12:22 am

Penguins... Always staring at me, acting like they're better than the rest of us... Stupid penguins...
Whiskers
Newbie
Newbie
 
Posts: 3
Joined: December 5th, 2005, 1:00 am

Postby Kalendaine » December 28th, 2006, 3:42 pm

Whoa. The 'hate' post kinda fell into religion. Religion, for me, is actually one of my top five 'hates,' along with beauracracy, and politics. All three have been bloated WAY beyond what's useful. Yes, i agree that religion has a purpose - to scare or entice the individuals of a group/society to follow the 'normal' path. However, when it gets loaded down with tradition, it becomes unbound from the society as a whole, and rules that may make sense several centuries ago, may not any longer. And, with nothing but fuzzy evidence of some higher conciousness, and an almost insanely egotistical view that of ALL the planets in all the galaxies, it would be interested in *us,* makes me wary of the whole religion thing. Maybe when they start making sense, i'll come back.

Sorry, folks, if i've stepped on some toes, but that's my opinion. I'm interested in hearing other opinions, though. I'm not close-minded, just skeptical.
Kalendaine
Regular
Regular
 
Posts: 54
Joined: April 29th, 2005, 12:00 am

Postby joe » January 5th, 2007, 7:29 am

three things:

1) condescension
2) hypocrisy
3) pretention

that's pretty much it. and they say that what we hate the most in others is what we hate the most in ourselves, so ... i guess i'll work on changing that. smirk.
joe
Mentor
Mentor
 
Posts: 150
Joined: April 3rd, 2005, 1:00 am

Postby Jack » January 5th, 2007, 8:26 pm

one thing:

1.) Hate.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." Bertrand Russell
"By doing certain things certain results follow." A. Crowley, Book of Lies
"Dum spiro, spero." - Cicero
Jack
Guru
Guru
 
Posts: 471
Joined: April 17th, 2005, 12:00 am

Postby Jacara » January 7th, 2007, 1:48 am

So do you hate Hate, or do you just strongly dislike it? :roll:
Jacara
Mentor
Mentor
 
Posts: 191
Joined: December 17th, 2005, 1:00 am

Postby Lissar » January 7th, 2007, 3:17 am

Perhaps he loathes it.
Lissar
Mentor
Mentor
 
Posts: 104
Joined: August 23rd, 2005, 12:00 am

Postby Jack » January 8th, 2007, 8:37 pm

Perhaps. Perhaps not.

It's just interesting to me that the vast majority of destruction(if not all) in the history of man has been because of someone hating something or someone without much or any understanding of that which they hate. If I must.. I choose to understand that which leads to the creation of more hate.. ignorance.. injustice.. inflexibility.. etc. as I develop my ability to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.(a.k.a. a mantra entitled "the serenity prayer")
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." Bertrand Russell
"By doing certain things certain results follow." A. Crowley, Book of Lies
"Dum spiro, spero." - Cicero
Jack
Guru
Guru
 
Posts: 471
Joined: April 17th, 2005, 12:00 am

I hate inside.

Postby Ceot » April 23rd, 2007, 4:44 pm

I hate all those retards who want to pass off all the responsibility
for the Virginia slaying to the parents and video games.
Stupid old gray haired counselor was saying.
We just leave them alone, you cant really save them all.
If only the parents would be more concerned.

Stupid old bat needs a mastectomy.
I don't care if she's old,
you know she wouldn't make for a good parent herself.

If only these stupid counselors would really ask if your ok.
Or people try and help those walking shadows in the back drop.
Just because your walking on aces don't mean I can keep up,
when all I get are these numbers...


Here's a thought.
either give the kids a vest that inflates full of foam with a nomex exterior,
Because it may just stop a bullet when it here's gun fire.
Have it inflate like an air bag does.

Or have the balls to finally go over and ask the kid
W.T.F you scary little bitch?
Something on your mind......

Cause honestly no peace of sh&^ p,c game really teaches
you how to aim rite.
So less the little bugger took months to practice on real life targets.
He would have missed most of those shots.

That means they had how F*^ing long to deal with this???

Who gets the blame their though?
My f*c&ing video games, and guns for being so deadly.

After that bull about making the N word illegal.
These pansy fanatics get poor imus fired.

Oh god forbid any one gets mad at those two air heads.
Not like he wasn't a little presumptuous with the duke case.
Or that if it wasn't his little girl on the basketball team
would he honestly give a f*&k...

Its insane that he didn't even say the N word.
Less the word is Nappy headed...

That's rite ladies and gentle man.
you just fired a guy over calling a basketball team nappy headed.
But you know what?

One of the country singers he widely supports is African American.
So figure that one out...
And seriously what would you expect from a
crotchety old Howard stern clone?...

Its not like he was going to give them any respect regardless of race.
And to be honest the reverends daughter needs to have her hair down if she's going to play.
I mean after looking at the video....

As for me i,m proud to call those two
African American people simply American.
The ones on the news debating if the N word should be illegal.
At the end they both said it was a step back wards,
and just moved on.

Those people are equals to me.

But now I have to deal with these rite wing retards.
trying to make stricter gun laws, and start trying to bad
violent video games again....

So you know what I hate....
I hate protagonists, who never really deal with anything.

I mean god forbid we stop looking at Anna Nicole like a side show.
Say, aww poor baby is totally screwed no matter who gets it.

Or actually see a news caster cry when their watching the faces
pass by the screen of the 30 dead kids.

Or that I don't hear some stupid half @$$ joke after
watching some soldier gets home in a box.
His family rite their sobbing away.

I hate how I cant go out onto a stage and scream all this.
Just let it all out...
Last edited by Ceot on April 23rd, 2007, 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Always in mind. And sadly twice as strong.

http://www.niteflirt.com/memberpub/homepage.asp?homepage=1
Ceot
Mentor
Mentor
 
Posts: 108
Joined: August 22nd, 2005, 12:00 am

Postby Ceot » April 23rd, 2007, 4:45 pm

P.S

F#@K the draft....
Always in mind. And sadly twice as strong.

http://www.niteflirt.com/memberpub/homepage.asp?homepage=1
Ceot
Mentor
Mentor
 
Posts: 108
Joined: August 22nd, 2005, 12:00 am

Postby whatthe75 » April 24th, 2007, 12:58 am

I hate the fact that no matter what colour clothes or bedsheets you have , when you wake up you have blue fluff in your belly button.
whatthe75
Guru
Guru
 
Posts: 433
Joined: December 10th, 2005, 1:00 am

Postby Kalendaine » April 25th, 2007, 4:47 am

The truth is thus: What is termed evil is simply a failure to empathize. Intolerance, say, of different faiths, nationalities, ethnicities, or gender? all evil. Greed? evil. Envy? evil. No matter where you look, the cause is the same - a failure to empathize with others.

That's what i hate. Just my two cents.
Kalendaine
Regular
Regular
 
Posts: 54
Joined: April 29th, 2005, 12:00 am

Postby baby_jessica75 » June 8th, 2007, 4:34 pm

I hate people who procrastnate!!

I was going to make a long list of things I hate but I just haven't gotten around to it yet I may find time tomarrow. wait!! tomarrow is no good maybe next week if I have the time
baby_jessica75
Regular
Regular
 
Posts: 97
Joined: July 8th, 2006, 12:00 am

Postby shadowfaerii » December 4th, 2007, 6:27 pm

needing the loo when youve just got warm in bed and everything out of your cover is freezing.
shadowfaerii
Regular
Regular
 
Posts: 22
Joined: October 21st, 2007, 12:00 am

hate

Postby sleepy134 » December 8th, 2007, 9:32 am

I hate plenty of things. I just don't spend a lot of time doing it. Lately I've
been hating people who are stupid enough to believe in (GLOBAL WARMING)
Is chicken little making a comeback. The real threat is muslim. After we fix
the worlds temperature could we please do something about gravity. Anyhow, things will be so much better if we get enough words outlawed. Words we cant say will be followed by words we cant think followed by words
we must think followed by words we must say. Enslavement complete.
1984 has arrived. read the book sleepy134
sleepy134
Regular
Regular
 
Posts: 56
Joined: November 9th, 2005, 1:00 am

Postby BobbyS » December 8th, 2007, 12:39 pm

I hate plenty of things. I just don't spend a lot of time doing it. Lately I've
been hating people who are stupid enough to believe in (GLOBAL WARMING)


Oh, you mean something that's had dozens (if not hundreds) of studies conducted proving its effects? Yeah, we'll fall for anything these days!

The real threat is muslim.


That doesn't even make gramatical sense.
Do you mean the real threat is a Muslim? As in, just one?
Or that the real threat is Islam, the religion?
Or that the real threat is Islamic, as in, of an Islamic nature?

Because the first two are just retarded, and the third one, I can at least see where you're coming from. Except that as ever with religion, the problems are caused by extremists who won't tolerate others' viewpoints and distort the religion to their own ends.
BobbyS
Guru
Guru
 
Posts: 304
Joined: April 11th, 2005, 12:00 am

Postby CycoMelody » December 18th, 2007, 3:32 pm

I hate the fact that the news we get is often nothing more than 1 point of view as opposed to the truth
CycoMelody
Guru
Guru
 
Posts: 306
Joined: September 12th, 2005, 12:00 am

Postby iamatestsubjectofme » December 19th, 2007, 12:31 am

I hate bootleg vodka
iamatestsubjectofme
Regular
Regular
 
Posts: 20
Joined: June 11th, 2006, 12:00 am

Re: The Hate Post

Postby mokillo » January 21st, 2008, 2:47 am

Theunknown1 wrote:

I hate the fact that the news we get is often nothing more than 1 point of view as opposed to the truth



Watch this video:
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=UBDgUdbLU9k

I stumbled on this video a little time ago, where as you can see some stupid truckers risked a lot people's lives. Not like ive got nothing against trucks, trucks rule, dumbass people driving trucks suck. Anyway ... :P

After a few days, this video was broadcast on the national news. They presented the video as the risks "of drinking and driving" (without any proof), and that it happened "somewhere in south Germany".

If they made the effort of reading the comments, or even sacrifice their time to do some google maps search, they could have figured out that it happened "somewhere in SERBIA" and that they have missed for more than 1000 km. Good work brainwashing the people, folks.

GrimIronMan wrote:

I'm talking about people, lets use vegans, for instance, who walk up to you while I was eating meat in a buffet (I kid you not), and they walked over to me and gave me a long, boring speech about how eating this piece of meat was going to drive cows to extinction and how if I kept eating, that I should realize I was murdering so many cows just by eating meat.

GrimIronMan


Totally agree with that. Answer then that 70% of everyday products that they use, even not food, have animal origins. Even their wallets have horse glue. If that doesnt make them vomit, at least that will shut their mouths up.

Ah, I hate electoral promises and marmalade.
mokillo
Regular
Regular
 
Posts: 24
Joined: December 29th, 2007, 1:00 am

Re: The Hate Post

Postby yaar » February 9th, 2008, 1:07 am

GrimIronMan wrote:
As for me: People who force their beliefs on someone. Whether it be vegans, religous people, or anything (no offense to vegans or religous people.) I'm talking about people, lets use vegans, for instance, who walk up to you while I was eating meat in a buffet (I kid you not), and they walked over to me and gave me a long, boring speech about how eating this piece of meat was going to drive cows to extinction and how if I kept eating, that I should realize I was murdering so many cows just by eating meat. I almost wanted to shove it down his throat and watch him squirm in disgust :twisted: .


Now the right thing to do in this situation is to continue to eat your meat throughout the speech, getting increasingly more apparent in your enjoyment of it, ending in near-orgasmic moans of pleasure.

As for myself...A lot of things already posted in this thread outline it pretty well. The whole vegan-speech thing tends to piss me off. At one point I extremely disliked religion, but have since grown more accepting. Fire-and-Brimstone preaching, however, is another matter. I do, however, hate some other things.
1. I hate birds singing in the morning (fuckers wake me up in the summer)
2. I hate sunny days (Not some vampire-emo-fag, just enjoy clouds).
3. I hate Soulja Boy.
4. I hate overly-sensitive people.
5. I hate putting cutlery away (don't even know how this one developed)
6. I hate excessive use of internet acronyms.
7. I hate people who refer to bands as if they were people's names.
8. I hate people, who, when asked what their favorite Pink Floyd song is, reply "We Don't Need No Education".
9. Ditto of above, except with Led Zeppelin and "Stairway To Heaven" (I don't care what anyone say, the song is good, but there are better songs. MUCH better songs.
10. I HATE Soulja Boy.
11. I hate Scientology.
12. I hate every "Scary Movie" after the first.

And that's all I can think of at the moment.
yaar
Newbie
Newbie
 
Posts: 15
Joined: January 3rd, 2008, 1:00 am

Postby mokillo » February 11th, 2008, 2:01 pm

I hate this game:

http://www.nonoba.com/chris/untangle

SO DIFFICULT.
mokillo
Regular
Regular
 
Posts: 24
Joined: December 29th, 2007, 1:00 am

Postby hellion0 » February 11th, 2008, 8:48 pm

I hate Windows. I also hate the conflict going on in my brain.
"One should strive to achieve; not sit in bitter regret."
hellion0
Regular
Regular
 
Posts: 85
Joined: July 27th, 2007, 12:00 am

Postby RaevynNiven » February 15th, 2008, 7:37 pm

shadowfaerii wrote:needing the loo when youve just got warm in bed and everything out of your cover is freezing.


Aww, I totally hate that too :(

I hate worms. I mean, I have a phobia of them. They give me panic attacks, sometimes even when they're just on TV o.O
RaevynNiven
Newbie
Newbie
 
Posts: 5
Joined: November 8th, 2007, 1:00 am

Postby dumpertaker » March 8th, 2008, 12:55 pm

I think hate is quite a strong word, and to a certain extent I think I can say that there is nothing I truly hate, but there is plenty that I dislike.

I dislike people who think they are better than everyone else...after all we all bleed red.
dumpertaker
Regular
Regular
 
Posts: 43
Joined: June 25th, 2007, 12:00 am

Postby lizzie101 » March 8th, 2008, 10:28 pm

The people who think they're cool and do burnouts through the parking lot next to my(and about 1000 other peoples') dormitory, blasting some retarded rap song with the bass all the way up. Some people have their basses so high, my window rattles. No joke.
lizzie101
Regular
Regular
 
Posts: 32
Joined: January 28th, 2008, 1:00 am

Postby CycoMelody » July 6th, 2008, 3:51 pm

I hate working in 90+ degree F temperatures. Its just evil!
You define your reality!
CycoMelody
Guru
Guru
 
Posts: 306
Joined: September 12th, 2005, 12:00 am

Postby Aestrius » July 6th, 2008, 11:01 pm

I hate squirrels... when will you give up your precious meat squirrels??!! WHEN!!


Edit: forgot the word "meat"... doh
Aestrius
Regular
Regular
 
Posts: 35
Joined: July 3rd, 2008, 12:00 am

Postby jayjedi » July 8th, 2008, 12:22 pm

CycoMelody wrote:I hate working in 90+ degree F temperatures. Its just evil!


Here Here!
jayjedi
Regular
Regular
 
Posts: 50
Joined: May 4th, 2005, 12:00 am

Postby CycoMelody » July 8th, 2008, 9:58 pm

jayjedi wrote:
CycoMelody wrote:I hate working in 90+ degree F temperatures. Its just evil!


Here Here!



Ooo Someone else feeling the burn too it seems!! Excessive Heat sucks!
You define your reality!
CycoMelody
Guru
Guru
 
Posts: 306
Joined: September 12th, 2005, 12:00 am

Postby Haxsaw » September 30th, 2011, 5:43 am

Dear Friends,
I do not belong to any church. I do not hate God the Father. Like some, I hate organizations that point out what is right and wrong. Like others I hate seeing members of some churches, some at least, point fingers, declaring they and only they had the golden way to Heaven. There are plenty of churches that read certain Bible Scriptures, close The Bible then ramble on. While rambling they tell what they believe a partial sentence to mean. In the face of the hypocrisy God gets a bad name. I do not hate God. I sometimes wonder why God does not hate me. Am I concerned with joining some church? NO! Have I seen more souls soured from hypocrisy than saved? YES! I just hate them for being self-righteous in their self-righteousness.
Sincerely,
Haxsaw
Haxsaw
Regular
Regular
 
Posts: 58
Joined: April 10th, 2005, 12:00 am

Postby soundexcess » October 1st, 2011, 1:21 am

Lissar wrote:Sin is a loaded word. I don't like it. I keep it out of my vocabulary for the most part. It's not so much Judeo-Christian as it is Christian, at least today. I hadn't even heard of original sin until I was about 13 years old. It was because I went to a baptism, and not because I was writing my D'var Torah about Genesis..

Just a note on this no offense is intended but the idea of original is one of man's and a tool of organized religion to guilt trip. Some of verses that decry against original sin are
Deuteronomy 24:16 - http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+24:16&version=NKJV
2 Kings 14:6 - http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Kings+14:6&version=NKJV
2 Chronicles 25:4 - http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Chronicles+25:4&version=NKJV
Ezekiel 18:20 - http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel+18:20&version=NKJV

anyway this not meant to support or fault any religion just educate.
1) i hate that there things that must be hated such as death/war/and disease.
soundexcess
Mentor
Mentor
 
Posts: 176
Joined: April 27th, 2009, 12:00 am

Postby Haxsaw » October 1st, 2011, 5:50 pm

Dear Guilt Trip,
Good mention yet if we never felt guilty would we not, worldwide, be a people out of control? I was just sitting here pondering your words. I figure the fat lady who does not feel guilty will never diet and so on....?
Sincerely,
Haxsaw
Haxsaw
Regular
Regular
 
Posts: 58
Joined: April 10th, 2005, 12:00 am


Return to Idle Chatter

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests