Can I get some honest advice from non-extremist Christians?

[jjj200]

Hi there! Well, I started coming onto this website at the beginning of the week, but I'm wondering if it is something I should still be doing. Now, I believe in God and am a devout Catholic and nothing is going to change that (events have happened to me that makes ME personally think that saying "God doesn't exist" is like saying "water doesn't exist) My question is, though, is what I'm doing (some male to female TRIG files) really wrong? Opinions, and thanks!

[pyroid]

I had a similar problem J. I believe in God in a different way then many people. I see God as the spark of it all. To me you cannot live 50 die and all that leftover energy just fade, its to dark. But I believe the Romans and Greeks were right when they made it ok for couples to date couples and formed bathouses. We are a curious race its our best and worst quailty. It is alright to explore your fantazies rather then bottle them up.

[whatthe75]

Myself i am an athiest so as you asked this is the view from a non chritian.

Christianity seems to be governed by the bible and its words.I think your dilemma is referring to its laws and how what you want might break those rules.

If you went to the hospital for surgery and the surgeon said that he was going to use techniques from a book written in the year 130A.D.I am sure you would laugh at him ( well i would anyway ).

Well thats the same year the bible was completed and it still seems to be ruling the modern person.It has not been revised to the modern day world and its environment.SO your saying is my sex change wrong according to the bible?

My friend was being verbally attacked by some, as you might say " hard line christians" for being an athiest ( which he is not ). And that his lack of faith was gonna send him to hell.His reply was - " I do believe in god - i just dont believe in religion".

I believe if you truly believe in god and want to honour him - then you would be doing it a lot more by doing it your own way, than instead of just doing it how your told to do it.

[FloridaPuppy]

Hi there! Well, I started coming onto this website at the beginning of the week, but I'm wondering if it is something I should still be doing. Now, I believe in God and am a devout Catholic and nothing is going to change that (events have happened to me that makes ME personally think that saying "God doesn't exist" is like saying "water doesn't exist) My question is, though, is what I'm doing (some male to female TRIG files) really wrong? Opinions, and thanks!

If you feel guilty because you believe that you might be doing something wrong, go to confession if it makes you feel better to tell them you've had impure thoughts. My uncle used to make it a point to go to confession a couple times a week and confess that he drank too much but never quit because he just didn't feel it was important enough. If you feel guilty because you think that others would believe you to be doing something wrong, then ask yourself if you feel the same way.

For what it's worth, religion can create some truely fucked up people once they get into a battle over enjoying something harmless and considering it a sin in their own mind. Don't worry about it if you enjoy it.

[plum]

I think there are two main issues you should consider from a Christian perspective. One is the Biblical standard of monogamy. If these triggers (or whatever you are experimenting with) are sexual, is the sexuality compatible with the intimacy between a husband and wife? I would say yes for things like a strip trigger or a trigger to make your partner horny; but no for, say, making your partner promiscuous or reversing someone's sexual orientation.

The other issue is domination: the Bible is on the whole anti-slavery and anti-addiction. I'm thinking now of the themes in 1 Corinthians 6:12-20. Giving yourself or someone else an addiction or curse seems contrary to what I read there. Ditto for becoming a slave or making someone else a slave.

I'm sure there are other issues but these are 2 that spring to mind. Freedom is an essential aspect of Christianity, despite what a lot of people think, so my intuition is that quite a few of these files could be OK from a Christian perspective. Obviously there's also a lot that's inappropriate. And I'm not the one to ask -- I've got my own fetishes and I'm pretty warped myself, so I am conflicted. I'm drawn to the files that I know are inappropriate, but I have trouble staying away.

(If anyone wants to argue that the Bible is pro slavery or pro polygamy, I propose we skip that argument -- it's all been said before. You can find "verses" that seem to support them, but reading a confetti of individual verses is not a good way to understand the Bible.)

[whatsername100]

God works in mysterious ways. Unless you get a clear sign to stop, God must have had a reason for you to find out about hypnosis and such. If you can't figure out what that reason is yet, you just might; sooner or later. I'm a Christian, as well.

[Lobotaru]

I am also a Christian. From my standpoint the male to female trigger files are not "evil." Trying to understand the opposite sex is not a sin, nor should all sexual thoughts be considered sinful (despite extremist Christian views that state otherwise by pointing out certain verses). The problem with Christian extremists is that most of them do not read the whole bible. They, like many other Christians, look only at the new testament and not at the old one. For example, lets take non-violence. Jesus says to basically turn the other cheek and to be non-violent, while the old testament clearly shows God ordering his people to war against non-believers on several occasions. I'm not going to go into the justifications for these actions, as I don't want to spend too much time on this post, but most things in the bible are not universal laws; they are very much situational.
Common sense dictates that it really isn't causing you any harm or irreversible psychological damage, so I don't really see what the problem is.

[bigC]

Hey there jjj. Christian here too.
As was said before, being curious about the opposite sex is no sin.
However, many of these hypnotic files on this site have been called addictive, and even alter people's views on life. Just remember, as long as you always keep your faith in God, the only thing these files can do is provide the limited fantasy time I THINK you're going for.

[hypnointerest]

I'm not religious but I would like to play devil's advocate for a second and tell you that what you are doing is a sin. Your god made you as you are and doesn't want you playing with immoral ideas like changing his plan for you. That's what I was told when I was growing up in church.


But no, for real, if you believe there is a god, and you dedicate yourself to this god you would assume in his omnipotent wisdom he would forgive you for whatever your transgression. You could also assume some things that are written are not so true when you look at the bible and its advocation of slavery as a clear sign the bible is man-written, containing the false delusions of oppressive people for one half and the misinterpretation of Jesus' metaphors and the metaphors used to describe him in the second. If you instead understood your idea of god as a sincere, benevolent supreme being that would not condone the prejudices of his followers and would not pass judgment in the way the bible portrays then you would most likely come to the conclusion that this god has apparently created you out of love and would not consider it a grave sin to explore your inner self, but a joyous thing.

[MN_FriendlyGuy]

... is what I'm doing (some male to female TRIG files) really wrong? Opinions, and thanks!

If I understand correctly, a wealthy man once asked Jesus, "What must I do to enter the Kingdom of Heaven?".

The answer had two parts.

First, there was a reference to *some* of the 10 commandments. Specifically, the ones that tell how to treat other people... murder, adultery, stealing, lying, cheating and honoring one's parents.

Next, there was an instruction to take action; to sell what he owned, and give the money to the poor (which of course, is different from giving the money to the church).

If this story from the past is a pattern you follow, then I think you have your answer.

Continue enjoying trance. And, continue paying attention to your actions.

[plum]

...some things that are written are not so true when you look at the bible and its advocation of slavery as a clear sign the bible is man-written, containing the false delusions of oppressive people for one half

Hm, what makes you think the Bible advocates slavery? I don't think it does. The biggest miracle of the Old Testament is the Exodus, which is about God freeing a bunch of slaves. Then there's a law code that limits slavery to be temporary and humane. Slavery was tolerated as an (unfortunate) part of life, but it was never advocated--just like disease and death are endured as part of life but never praised. The prophets consistently portray slavery as bad. The biggest story of the second half of the Old Testament is the emancipation of Judah after Babylonian captivity: the subversion of slavery. Then there's Jesus who says sin equates to slavery, "but the truth shall set you free." Paul tells anyone who is a slave to purchase freedom as soon as possible, and make the best of it for the time being. And theologically, several times it is stated that salvation is becoming a child of God, in explicit contrast to being a slave of God.

Could the Bible be more clearly anti-slavery? Yes, I think so, the OT law could have forbidden slavery, and the NT could say "If you have slaves, release them." I wish it did say that. But the general trend is consistently anti-slavery. The immensely sad fact is that many economies rely on slavery, sort of like the USA relies on fossil fuel acquired through warfare, supporting oppressive governments, and bombing innocent civilians in Asia, to keep our highways busy. Likewise we depend on the slave labor of China to keep our Wal-Marts filled with crap. Our domestic economy ran on slave labor till just a few generations ago (except our version of slavery was much crueler), and the toxic ramifications still plague us. Basically, Americans at least are not in a position to feel superior. Christianity as a religion works from the grassroots, like yeast in bread dough, and if a society involves slavery, then societal regeneration begins with treating slaves fairly and decently, and emancipation comes as a consequence, not as a starting point.

Sorry for the long post, but I can't keep quiet when I hear bullshit about how the Bible is pro-slavery.

[hypnointerest]

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.(Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.(Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.(Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.(Ephesians 6:5 NLT)


Not only does it advocate it, it sets up specific rules to make sure that your particular brand of slavery is a-okay with god. Then again I don't think many Christians read the old testament and say "Well, let's start stoning women and killing our first born." The problem is that the religious only take the pieces they like from their holy texts, not the whole. They piece together their own version of the religion in a specific way that lets them live their life as they see it should be.


How can you accept the whole knowing these things?

[plum]

You don't have to agree with me, but (as I said) I think there's a meaningful distinction between "tolerate" and "advocate." Slavery, polygamy, and bribery were all tolerated in the Old Testament without (as I argued earlier) being approved. Slavery in ancient Israel sounds relatively humane, compared to other ancient societies and even modern ones: I'd rather be a slave then and there, than a slave in South Carolina in 1850. Read the Wikipedia article about it. Not to deny slavery is bad--it's like a societal disease--but then I'm repeating myself.

(1) Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

(2) Not only does it advocate it, it sets up specific rules to make sure that your particular brand of slavery is a-okay with god. The problem is that the religious only take the pieces they like from their holy texts, not the whole. They piece together their own version of the religion in a specific way that lets them live their life as they see it should be.

(3) How can you accept the whole knowing these things?

(1) In Ephesians, what do you think would be better advice to a slave? "Serve kind of half-assed. Or run away. Start a revolution. Who cares?" Would that be better or worse?

(2) I disagree: the Bible does not advocate slavery or say it is A-OK. The Bible tolerates it, regulates it, and makes it relatively humane, while acknowledging many times that it is a bad state of existence.

(3) Some Bible-browsers seem to think that religious people proclaimed the Bible to be a sort of step-by-step cookery book for life. And so those bits that say enslave others, kill others, rejoice, weep, move, stay still, are contradictory eternal instructions which those hypocrites in churches just don't bother to obey, probably because they are so damn ignorant. The short answer is that literary interpretation -- and the Bible is a literary work -- is simply much more nuanced than that. If you want to learn more you could start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeneutics

You ask, "How can I accept it?" But what exactly do you think I accept? I'm just an anonymous pervy and deeply damaged person lurking in an erotic hypnosis forum, and all I've claimed is that the Bible does not advocate slavery (while tolerating it, sadly). I haven't made any grand claims.

[hypnointerest]

A rose by any other name, would still be slavery. I don't see how you can say "Well, slavery was bad, I agree, but these guys were really nice about it."


I think better advice from the supposed mouth of the righteous would be "Stop enslaving people." not "Don't beat them on Sunday."

I am not saying that most Christians adhere so closely to the bible that they believe these things to be right and true, I am saying they ignore the parts they don't like and then accept the parts they do like as doctrine. Then when somebody brings it up something nasty they just say "oh, well we don't believe that part."..... It's in there most sacred texts, purported as the word of their god. How can one see so clearly that they are simply the words of warmonger's who wanted to feel less guilt about the atrocities they committed and then be able to take any of the lessons presented with a huge grain of salt? I guess if you were to tell me you had one of those Jefferson bibles I couldn't really argue.

[mr_pink]

Hey peeps - deist viewpoint to throw into the mix.

To base your perceptions of 'sin' and what's right or wrong is not really adhering to what I would consider to be the essence of God.

God, in purest form, is the energy force that created and underpins the Universe. I mean, all we are is condensed energy, all made from the same fundamental building blocks.

Now, this idea of something being sinful is simply forming self-judgment on the basis of your interpretation of words that have, over the centuries, been written by those people who would believe themselves to the God's representatives. But look at what they don't want you to do. They don't want you to do things that are mentally and spiritually liberating; it's all about control. Did God appear in mortal form and write these tomes for your benefit? No.

God gave you one gift, and that's the gift of reason. The little spark that lets you say, "I think, therefore I am."

Don't beat yourself up over edicts written by people simply to control other people. It's just not healthy, and it'll prevent you from being happy.

All God cares about is that you love yourself, you love other people, and no-one is being harmed. Anything else is irrelevant.

[Follower]

Hey, guys, I'm a Christian too. Just wanted to drop my opinion.

I just started here a couple of days ago after browsing the wikipedia entry for "erotic hypnosis." A file linked me here, and my curiosity grew triple fold.

Since I was a child, I've always wondered what it would be like to be of the opposite sex, but losing my whole identity is something that I wouldn't comfortable with. I like being me, and I believe that God made me me for a special reason. Therefore, I chose the trigger trances, just to be safe.

But the more I listen to these files, and the more I read the forum, I'm seeing that this isn't necissarily a safe website. Not that there's no warnings anywhere, but a lot of the stuff on here is just beyond me in why anyone would want it. Sure, I've thought about dumbing myself down, losing my intelligence, becoming more sex-driven, etc. But if given the chance, I'd probably only choose these options for a day. I love myself as a person. And I hope that I remain myself throughout life, grow in my faith, and marry someone that I love.

Thing is, from reading the boards here, I get the idea that even those people who listen to files that they are *curious* about, will be affected by them. I could listen to the gay file, and it might affect me, since sometimes I've wondered if I'm gay. But I'm definitely not (or at least, I'm largely hetero). If I listened to one of these, and curiosity got the better of me, how would I know if I truly wanted to be gay, or if it was just the file?

Honestly, thoughts like this sometimes creep me out, but I want to stick it through, I want to imagine myself in someone else's body for just once. I just don't want to get attached to it.

Thus, I've come to the conclusion that this isn't kids stuff. If we play with fire here, we're liable to get burned.

I still think this is all really cool though! People just need to know who they are, and what they want before exploring anything on here.

[hypnointerest]

In my opinion if there is no original want to be gay, no amount of files can cause you to be gay. Now, if you are hiding gay tendencies from yourself because of your religion you may become less inhibited and accept what you truly want more easily. :wink:



(Do you think many totally straight men ask themselves if they are gay? If you are asking yourself this question then you are at least curious, and that curious nature will probably pull your feelings to the surface.)

[Follower]

(Do you think many totally straight men ask themselves if they are gay? If you are asking yourself this question then you are at least curious, and that curious nature will probably pull your feelings to the surface.)

Curious, maybe. But I'm not willing to give up my lifestyle and the form of my relationships to try out a whim. That, and I've never really been attracted to any guy, actually. It's just the curiosity about the female form that has made me wonder.

Do I find going to a Sauna or driving into a gay bar enticing? No. I've been asked countless times to be in Saunas and I've politely declined the offer. I've seen guys cuddle with each other and been somewhat weirded out.

There's been multiple girls that I've liked throughout my life, and only like 2 guys that I've been nervous around. Honestly, I think it's just the tendency of Aspergers to make me obsessively think about things like this. Besides, I love myself too much to change any part of me that drastically. And I already like a few girls. If I like girls, I can't be gay right? If I get erections around girls, I can't be gay. [/quote]

[Blink]

If I like girls, I can't be gay right? If I get erections around girls, I can't be gay.

There are more than two choices.

Click here for a hint.

-- Blink

[Follower]

If I like girls, I can't be gay right? If I get erections around girls, I can't be gay.

There are more than two choices.

Click here for a hint.

-- Blink

Well...thank God that I'm attracted to women more than I am to men, right?

:lol:

I think I'll ignore that tiny bit of homosexuality in me, thank you very much!

[Alien4420]

I still think this is all really cool though! People just need to know who they are, and what they want before exploring anything on here.

I guess my question is why that should matter? I haven't noticed that people stay the same throughout their lives. They do in some respects, but not in others. From what I've seen, sexuality is fairly, sometimes dramatically fluid. As long as you're happy with what you choose and no one gets hurt by it, what difference does it make?

[Route42]

My question is, though, is what I'm doing (some male to female TRIG files) really wrong? Opinions, and thanks!

From my own (probably woefully inadequate) ruminations on the subject my interpretation is kind of like this:

Pretty much the only things in the Bible that address topics that might relate to changing gender are the verses about homosexuality and the verse about crossdressing. Regarding the post about crossdressing (which IMO more directly relates to the issue at hand) I'm going to quote segments from a post someone made on another forum:

Deuteronomy 22:5 is the verse most often cited with regards to crossdressing. In the 1800's and early 1900's, Christians used this verse as a prohibition for women wearing pants.

According the New American Standard Bible, "A woman shall not wear man's clothing, nor shall a man put on a woman's clothing; for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD your God."

If we look closer, a possible translation would be: A woman [ishah, in Hebrew, meaning a female] shall not wear man's [not ish, male, but the Hebrew word, geber, meaning strong man, able-bodied man, warrior] clothing [kaliy, meaning armor, combat gear; only here is it translated as clothing], nor shall a man [again geber, meaning strong man, able-bodied man, warrior] put on woman's [ishah, meaning female] clothing [simlah, meaning sheet, blanket, outer wrap, cloak, or garment]; . . . .

The meaning of this verse appears to be as follows. A civilian woman is not to put on the combat gear of a warrior to fight against the enemy, nor is a warrior to be disguised as a woman, either to run away from combat or to use subterfuge against the enemy.

(If anyone wants the full post, send me a PM)

While transgender/transexualism don't directly relate to homosexuality, it does raise the question for Christians who take such matters seriously. If you start off a man liking women, and end up a woman liking women, that makes you a lesbian? But what about men who become female and change their sexual preference to men? It is more than most theologians can handle and thus it becomes easier to avoid the whole issue.

Now, from my viewpoint (so take that as you will), I don't think God has a problem with M2F or F2M, or other trans. I mean, He allows babies to be born with both sets of genitals... so obviously the womb gender process is a bit suspect to begin with. Nothing in the Bible directly addresses the situation. So my view would be that the only case where the issue could enter dangerous area is if a person is married and wanting to transition and the spouse is uncomfortable with that. (There may be other peripheral issues that would revolve around other issues relating to other people, but the wife issue is the main one I could think of off hand).

In this specific case the file is just a TRIG file. So there should be no permanent effects... its just fun. Have fun with it, but as with anything we use as entertainment, make sure it doesn't overtake your life and become the most important thing.

[MasterHMH]

I'd like to point out that I really appreciate the variety of well-reasoned responses from Christians in this thread. You are those who are unfairly antagonized by many of us for the extremist beliefs of a minority, although one who happens to be incredibly loud.

To the OP, I would like to offer my advice: If you are truly troubled by the contents of any file, or the site in general, I would consult the religious leader or leaders at your chosen place of worship. I would posit that they will offer expertise and insight to the faith that is greater than what just about anybody who browses this site can offer.

However, I would recommend taking any advice with a grain of salt. If this is something that you are truly interested in, and it is not compatible with your faith, then perhaps you should re-evaluate your faith first. I don't mean to offend in saying that, please understand; I am an agnostic to whom faith is relatively unimpactful, so we obviously place different levels of significance on the subject matter. I simply believe that if something is worth having, it is worth challenging, and that includes faith. I greatly respect any religious person who can challenge their faith, whether they stick with it or not. I believe that many people in the world would be stronger for it, and perhaps in "God's Plan," this could be a moment like that for you.

[stephiebaby]

"Now, I believe in God and am a devout Catholic "

Then what you are doing, whatever it is, is probably wrong. But if this is true, why are you asking our advice? Go to confession and follow the priests instructions.

Or better yet, cast off the shackles of your upbringing, think for yourself, examine the wider world and find your personal anecdotes do not prove god to the same degree as proving water, read about religions and discover you can just make up your own version of god if you are still desperate to hang on to it, most christians do that anyone, making god suit their lifestyle and prejudices.

So, according to your religion just about anything is wrong, unless it can be done in the name of god, usely at the exspence of people. But other than harming others nothing is really wrong and you can make your god fit your own desires, like so many of your cult do anyway.

"I think there are two main issues you should consider from a Christian perspective. One is the Biblical standard of monogamy. If these triggers (or whatever you are experimenting with) are sexual, is the sexuality compatible with the intimacy between a husband and wife? I would say yes for things like a strip trigger or a trigger to make your partner horny; but no for, say, making your partner promiscuous or reversing someone's sexual orientation."

What christians, especially catholics, have you been talking to? Changing sexual orentation would be ok? Are you mad? Unless the trigger is for no sex unless trying to conceive it would be wrong. Actually the biblical christians would probably have seen hypnosis as witchcraft and stoned or burned the poor person from the OP.

"The other issue is domination: the Bible is on the whole anti-slavery "

What bible are you reading? The bible gives instruction on which people it is ok to enslave, and which should be slaughtered because they are not fit to even be slaves. Instructions on rape and slave wives too. Try reading the whole thing, not just the few lines others feed you.

"(If anyone wants to argue that the Bible is pro slavery or pro polygamy, I propose we skip that argument -- it's all been said before. You can find "verses" that seem to support them, but reading a confetti of individual verses is not a good way to understand the Bible.)"

Yes, the bits and pieces approach is not the way to examine christianity, one must examine it warts and all, which is often impossible for believers. One must also examine it from the perspective of the people who made it up, not from omdern standards and beliefs. Many modern liberal christians would have been stoned by their biblical conterparts for being heretics.

"God works in mysterious ways. Unless you get a clear sign to stop, God must have had a reason for you to find out about hypnosis and such."

And a "good" christian would say temtation was the reason god let's you find these places, and by staying you fail the test. Your god is big on testing people and screwing with their minds just to see if they will fold.

"The problem with Christian extremists is that most of them do not read the whole bible"

That is a common problem for christians, not just extremists. You'll find the most balanced and comprehensive information about the bible from non believers who have read the thing to check the selected verses people try to feed us.

"Hm, what makes you think the Bible advocates slavery? I don't think it does"

Your opinion is irrelevent, try reading it. Duetronomy should be a good place to start, if I remember correctly there is plenty of violence there. Murder, infantacide, rape, slavery.

"The biggest miracle of the Old Testament is the Exodus, which is about God freeing a bunch of slaves."

Ah, but the right kind of slaves. God doesn't let his faithful enslave anyone, only those fit to serve. The rest are slaughtered. Women are only good as slave wives if they are virgins, if they are not virgins they should be slaughtered with the men and babies. And some women from some tribes can't be taken no matter what.
Also the whole christian religion is slavery. Obey and worship or spend eternity burning in hell. At least with human slavery you can choose to die on your feet instead of living on your knees. In christian mythology you live on your knees, or you live burning in hell.

"But the general trend is consistently anti-slavery."

No, the general trend is god looking after his people, and killing or enslaving the rest. Your tiny selection does not represent the bible, it represents modern societies values which believer want to claim as their gods original intent.

"Sorry for the long post, but I can't keep quiet when I hear bullshit about how the Bible is pro-slavery."

Yes, like many christians the truth about your mythology upsets you and you feel you have to defend the faith. But you failed miserably. You may have made tyourself feel better, but all you have shown the rest of us is massive ignorance of your own religion.

"You don't have to agree with me, but (as I said) I think there's a meaningful distinction between "tolerate" and "advocate." Slavery, polygamy, and bribery were all tolerated in the Old Testament "

Try reading instead of fighting. The bible does not just advocate slavery, it demands slavery as the will of god. You are trying to impose modern societies values onto the bible, but it doesn't fit. People have done a better job as god than your god, that fact you are trying to impose modern values onto your god proves it.

"Slavery in ancient Israel sounds relatively humane"
"When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.(Exodus 21:20-21 NAB) "

Interesting. You see torturing someone so they die slowly over a day or two to be humane? Well you certainly are christian, there is no doubting that.

"what do you think would be better advice to a slave? "Serve kind of half-assed. Or run away. Start a revolution. Who cares?" Would that be better or worse?"

For a slave, pretend to serve, build your forces, start an underground, then rise up and slit their throats in the middle of the night. That is advice for the slave. Advice for the owners is "slaves be good, behave and serve your masters".

"I disagree: the Bible does not advocate slavery or say it is A-OK. The Bible tolerates it, regulates it, and makes it relatively humane, while acknowledging many times that it is a bad state of existence."

You need to read more of the bible than the examples given to you here. The problem is you do not want to know, you want to defend your beliefs.

" I haven't made any grand claims"

Yes you have, your grand erroneous claim that the bible merely tolerates slavery when it demands it. The bible tells the faithful which people to enslave, and which are not worthy and should be slaughtered. This is not merely tolerating slavery.

"Sure, I've thought about dumbing myself down, losing my intelligence,"

No need , you're already a believer.

" If I listened to one of these, and curiosity got the better of me, how would I know if I truly wanted to be gay, or if it was just the file?"

Read up on hypnosis, it's not magic.

"Curious, maybe. But I'm not willing to give up my lifestyle and the form of my relationships to try out a whim. That, and I've never really been attracted to any guy, actually. It's just the curiosity about the female form that has made me wonder. "

You've been conditioned. If you were raised differently it is likely your "curiousity" would have already been satisfied. And bi people like guys and girls, and people trying to stay straight out of fear or conditioning also have relationships with girls. Many gay men have had wives and children. Christianity is enticing for these people too as they can be married and not have sex with their wife because god only want's sex for procreation.

"Well...thank God that I'm attracted to women more than I am to men, right?"

I wouldn't bet the house on you knowing who you like, but you can probably thank your god for your current choice and desire to remain the same, as well as any confusion.

"I haven't noticed that people stay the same throughout their lives."

They do if they are desperately trying to avoid a change which goes against their worldview.

[bandler]

Hi there! Well, I started coming onto this website at the beginning of the week, but I'm wondering if it is something I should still be doing. Now, I believe in God and am a devout Catholic and nothing is going to change that (events have happened to me that makes ME personally think that saying "God doesn't exist" is like saying "water doesn't exist) My question is, though, is what I'm doing (some male to female TRIG files) really wrong? Opinions, and thanks!

I'm not an extremist Christian, but I play one on TV.

You see, religion is big business. Always has been. Religion is one of the best ways to control the masses, and boy is it profitable! And we pay no taxes.

Of course, 'we' have made a lot of progress in mind control since the days of Jesus. It used to be nearly everyone was afraid of one and true 'invisible man in the sky who hears and sees all'. The old divide and conquer ploy was a godsend. Sheeple are so confused and divided by all the different variations of the 'invisible man in the sky who hears and sees all' that they are easy to herd and shear and slaughter.

Lately, 'we' have developed sophisticated technology like TV, video games, and hypnotic MP3 files that program sheeple's behavior.

If you are using new technologies to program your behavior in ways that do not impact our profits, may the invisible man in the sky who hears and sees all bless you!