Martial Arts

[Linja]

Just wondering what style if any people did of martial arts.
Feel free to elaborate on what you say, if you learn a particular branch of your style or if it's not listed. I understand I've been pretty broad in the styles, and have only mentioned the well-known styles, I had a lot more, but it wouldn't let me enter them all, so I've tried to get as wide a range as I can. I personally have done a bit of Karate, but more Kickboxing (freestyle, mix of Muay Thai and western boxing.)

-Linja

[makidas]

I love Kung Fu, specificly the Shao-Lin warrior monks. Those guys are so incredible.

[Lord_Mizaru]

I have a friend studying Ba Gua Zhang... that lucky bastard also got an invite a little while ago to study Togakure Ninpojutsu. He's also dabbled in Ving Tsun, Escrima, Tong Moo Do, Kali, and christ only knows what else. He's a dangerous dangerous man :P

[makidas]

I've never heard of any of those, but that sounds pretty fuckin crazy dude. I've recently started practicing Chi Kung. It's basically the absorption of Ki energy, pretty shnazzy.

[Lord_Mizaru]

Actually it's spelt Qi Gong, and he also does that... I completely forgot. Let's continue the list with Iron Shirt and Tantra.... hey, they call Tantra Kung Fu :P

And by the way, you've definitly heard of Togakure Ninpojutsu, you've just never heard it called by that name. Does Ninpo sound a little more familiar? As in the esoteric side of Ninjitsu?

[Lord_Mizaru]

And who the hell is learning Aikido?... and why :P

[makidas]

And "spelt" is spelled "spelled", lol!! I've never seen it spelled Qi Gong, are you sure it's the same thing? The art of drawing ki energy in? Because Chi is another word for Ki is another word for kinesis, oh yea, Qi does fit in there, lol. That's pretty cool that your boy knows some Ninjitsu, that's pretty crazy.

[Linja]

lol, nice Makidas. Yeah, the Shaolin Monks are awesome.

Ninjitsu? I don't know much about it, but it sounds pretty interesting, do they learn about weapons and stealth and the stuff like that? Are they taught Kuji-in?

And arn't Chi, Ki and Qi the same things? And regardless, there are many different ways of spelling foreign words, particularly asian ones. Like Ju Jitsu. I spell it like that, because that's how it's spelt in many of the gyms around me. But it can also be spelt Jiu Jitsu, Ju Jutsu or Ju Jiutsu. It doesn't really matter.

And do you believe in that Ki stuff? We did some in Karate, and it was talked about a lot when I did Tai Chi. I hear it dissed a lot on martial arts forums. And I just wanted to hear it from people who actually practice it.

-Linja

[rugbyjockca]

I took karate for a little while when I was a kid. I didn't get very far (yellow belt...Yay me!), but when I was assaulted a few years ago, I managed to use some of those skills to subdue my attacker.

I always admired how there was a definite connection between mind and body, at least with the classes I took. It wasn't something they dwelled on (we didn't really do meditation or anything), but it just seemed like you had to be mentally sharp in order to learn and perform the kata (probably spelled that wrong...oh, and also, "spelt" is a word, even if it looks wrong and isn't used as much any more).

[Linja]

Cool, yeah I felt that way while I was doing Karate, it was a wierd feeling. It was something that I feel lost in Kickboxing, but it stays with me when I'm skrewing around, making up my own Katas and shit. It's just a feeling of flowing, almost like a dance, and it seems to fit so well and feels so good. That's definantly missing from Kickboxing, but I feel that kickboxing is a bit more hands on, because we do contact sparring.

And Lord Mizaru, what's wrong with Aikido?

-Linja

[Lord_Mizaru]

Ah so many many things to respond to. I'll do my best to see if I remember them all. Yes, Ki, Chi, and Qi are the same thing, but Qi is the way that most Chinese people I know will spell it in English. And it has a HUGE ammount to do with martial arts that focus on internal techniques... in other words you won't hear much about it from the stuff you'll learn in the dojo you see in your local mall...

Most Karate is absolute crap. Most of the stuff taught over here is Shotokan, a system that was developed to make people money. This is not a real martial art. I know I'll probably be pissing off a lot of people by saying that but it's not. You'd be a better fighter if you'd never learned it.

Aikido is crap. Now then, to expand on that. Ueshiba was one powerful son of a bitch. Quite possibly one of the most powerful men that ever lived. He developed his martial art, Aikido (by the way, most of the internal techniques come from Ba Gua). Now, for him, Aikido was an amazingly powerful martial art. BUT, he never taught everything to anybody. The art died with him. He knew its power, and knew that most people would be too dangerous if they ever learned everything he knew, so he never taught it completely. What's left is a mediocre shadow of its original form.

Lastly, Ninjitsu is not Ninpo. Ninpo is a part of Ninjitsu once you get up to the very high levels. Ninpo is the internal techniques of Ninjitsu, and is only taught to a very select few. If you see a school claiming to teach it (which I sincerely doubt you ever will), it's more than likely a fake since these aren't people who teach it for a living, and they absolutely do not teach it to any old Joe off the streets.

Anything I'm missing point it out to me and I'll explain if I can later on.

[rugbyjockca]

Most Karate is absolute crap.

I'm not a big defender of karate, or any martial art, but I've noticed that just about anyone who knows anything about martial arts is really quick to dismiss at least one style as crap. The style that is the most utterly crappy appears to depend more on the person you ask than on the style itself. I always wondered about this sort of rivalry between the styles, and I have to admit I tend to not give too much credence to anyone who starts off by telling me which martial arts are the wrong ones.

I know that at least some of the skills I learned from a brief stint in a community-based Karate class (that was free, so if it was a money-making scam, somebody's financial planner is absolute crap) helped me in a completely practical way, so whether my class was bogus or not, I'm thankful for having taken it.

I figure that every style has its pros and cons. I'm sure that there are styles that are superior and others that really, really suck, but my guess is that when you enter into a discussion about whether Ninjas can kick Shaolin Warriors' asses, you're learning more about the people talking than you are about those styles.

[Tribial_Tiger79]

Hi,

whatever style you take use what works and what doesn't discard.
No one style is the best they were all created for a purpose.

I would love to leave my life behind to study with Ashida Kim, or Stephen K. Hays, or Richard J. Van Donk

Ninjitsu was developed by Chines munks who moved to Japan to study freely I think, the pesants who lived near them were taught parts of thier art to aid the monks in protection, but some of the pesants took it and became the Ninja of legand.

I like Wing Chung's meathod of Chi devolpment



Tiger

[Linja]

Lord Mizaru,

Why do you have such a blatantly critical view of Karate? When I learnt karate, I really enjoyed it and I have also put it to practical usage in a situation that otherwise may have resulted quite badly for me. Because I do kickboxing which doesn't practice anything like Chi or any level of spirituality, people there tend to laugh at most other martial arts that talk about the power of chi, and chi gets dissed a lot in the martial arts forums, and yet you believe in it, so just be a bit more open.

Rugbyjock, you're right, I think that a lot of people get caught up in their own style without taking in a broad enough spectrum, and I too believe that every style has it's pros and cons. It's just a matter of finding what's most effective for your situation.

Tiger, nice post. You have a very appealing and friendly way of saying things, are you a negotiator or something? Tell me about Wing Chung's method of Chi development. I'm not sure about this, but is Wing Chung the same and Win Chun?

-Linja

[aeroue]

I learnt Ninjitsu for a year or so, nearly...

It was pretty cool.
And to be honest in defence of Mizaru, Karate is far from the best martial art. To put it nicely. It simply is inferior in technique. The amount of times my Sensei (who used to do karate) put it down and explained why in his eyes it was rubbish is quite convincing.

[Lord_Mizaru]

Not all forms of Karate are bad. Shotokan which is by far and away the most commonly taught is absolute crap. If it was practical for you, that's great, it served its purpose. But for anybody wanting to learn martial arts they'd be best served by staying away from it.

[Linja]

I've never done shotokan, but I do hear some bad things about it, although I'm not one to judge because I've never seen it in action. I did freestyle karate, so that may be why it is a lot better than some of the commercial "kiddy" karate styles around.

Aeroue, I'd love to hear more about your sensei's convincing arguments about how bad Karate is, out of self-interest. I'm always looking for weak and strong points in styles, it helps to polish my own.

-Linja

[aeroue]

Cant remember exactly havnt gone for month or so since given up

but: (comparative to ninjitsu)

1) Uses only strength on most techniques over many other important things.

2) Such as body move movement which ninjitsu emphasises a lot and it does make you much 'stronger' having seen the difference mseslef thus ninja better.

3) As whatshisface said many of the styles are absolute rubbish and out their to fleece you of money. eg one karate club near me-charges you over £50 a month. Ninjitsu cost me £4 a week.

4) Generally the style just isn't as good in that techniques are not comparatively as effective.

Thats what he says. I think...

Though some karate is good, so long as you join a good place i reckon...

[Tribial_Tiger79]

Hey!

It makes me sad to hear that my brother's have such a pour view of Karate, why? I'm sure you ask.

I know Karate has it's faults but could an art be so bad if it defeated the mighty Samarui?
Perhapse we can learn from it,

or do we forget where these arts came from?

Mr. Mizaru Perhapse you should look at your own path through your Martial Art and Find some HUMILTY! Perhapse not all Arts may not be as mighty as yours, and you were a Rep. for your art I would coose Kartae Hands down!

Now dont get me wrony I to have problems with schools that push black belts and does not teach it the way it should be, but such is life.

The Masters of Karte did not know all of the answers, but do we?

[Tribial_Tiger79]

Mr. Linja,

Anyone can learn how Wing Chun develops Chi, I found it in a book
"How to Develop Chi Power"

no I am not a meatator
I am a student off all Martial Arts because of my passion for them.
I have always viewed myself as a wariorr of life and I try very hard to walk that path.

When I was young I heard the story's of the Ninja and fell in love, that was every thing I wanted to be. But because of out side influeces i am just a simple warrrior nouthing more nouthing less.



Tiger

[Lord_Mizaru]

They did not use fuckin Shotokan to defeat the samurai. Wing Chun has no form of chi development what so ever. You people defend things you clearly know nothing about. Wing chun (or Ving Tsun if you want to spell it right) was invented essentially as an extremely effective self defense system for women. Sure it got developed further, and it's still one of the most effective martial arts out there, but there is no damn chi development. I'm in a cranky mood and can't stand to see you people mess that up anymore.

[Tribial_Tiger79]

Mr. Mizaru,

I beg to differ Wing chun does have chi devolpment. I am curious on how you know are you a Wing chun Grand Master or a Mighty Shaolin munk?


Also Wing chun wasn't developed as a self defense system for women, it was developed by a woman named Ng Mui that was a master of Shaolin Kung Fu it was only named Wing Chun after Ng Mui's first student.
www.fongswingchun.com/history.html


Shotokan Karate was developed in Okinawa. Due to Okinawa's close proximity to china cultural exchanges. In 1372 Okinawa' King Satto exchanged diplomatic delegations with the Ming Emperor. Part of the exchange included people knowlageable people from thier respective country's. Thus Okinawans refined thier fighting meathods further by incorporating ideas from foreign sources and adapting them to thier own styles and needs

www.Karatevid.com/article-history.htm
and
www.shotokanforeveryone.com/index_fr.htm


No Mr. Mizaru clearly you do not know what you are talking about.


Tiger

P.s.

Perhapse you shuold go buy the book " How to develope chi power " because the auther is a instructor in Wing chun

[aeroue]

Im not sure, had a few drinks, but im pretty sure it was ninja fighting samurai quite a lot from what i have randomly heard...

not karate, however of course both martial arts may have been involved

[Tribial_Tiger79]

your right the Ninja were hired to assinate the Samuri and various leaders.
and I can see whay the Samuri hated the Ninja.

I read some where that the samuri would come into Okinawa and plunder the Okinwan's

Tiger

[Lord_Mizaru]

I love people who get all their information from online sources. See, the wonderful thing about writing things online is anybody can do it and put it up for all to see, whether what they write is crap or not. The information you have posted links to is doubtless accurate to an extent (it's too damn late at night to go reading it in detail), but in reality possibly not 100% true. The fact of the matter is that the sources I have my information from may also be wrong, but they are people that I know and trust and have faith in, which I think ought to take precedence over links that I too could google and come up with. Perhaps you know your information from other sources and merely present such links to back up your claims, that, I cannot fault you for.

Wing Chun (please capital the C in Chun, or better yet, spell it Ving Tsun like it's meant to be =O) as it is taught by people today, including people taught by lineage holders, does not have a system of chi development. It has amazing hand techniques and crappy foot work.

Shotokan was founded way back when, what is taught today is absolute bullshit.

You can dispute what I say all you like. If you can manage to prove to me that every word I've spoken is false, then I shall admit my defeat. But I assure you that the words I say are not intentionally false, nor meant to make you look like a fool. This is merely what I've been told and what I know to be true.

[Linja]

Hey,

I'm definantly with Lord Mizaru on this one.
The Samurai were no way in fucking hell beaten by Karateka. They were beaten because of technology.

Karate was invented in Okinawa when weapons were banned (can't help it's effectiveness against weapons), but Shotokan is a branch that has developed from that, and yeah, I'm pretty sure it's shit. Although not all Karate is like that, and much of it is good.

As for Wing Chun, some clubs/gyms/dojos whatever you want to call them do teach chi development, but these are very few and far between, because for a martial art to be recognised as effective or even used in a martial manner, chi should be avoided. For this reason, modern Wing Chun has abandoned chi development almost entirely.

And yeah, it does have shit footwork, and I'm not a fan of the handwork either, and I don't think it has much power unless you're really good at it.
I've been to this awesome amature fight night twice, and there are kickboxing and Muay Thai fights. And also Karate and Wing Chun fights. The Karate and Wing Chun are kept seperate, because they can't take the physical punishment in the kickboxing and Muay Thai fights, well, that's what I think. Anyway, there were 13 Karate vs Wing Chun fights, and Wing Chun lost them all. I thought this may be a one off, but when I went there again, a few monthes later, they got the crap kicked out of them again. Hard to respect an art with displays like that. Basically, the Karate guys kicked their legs and their heads, and the Wing Chun guys fell over A LOT.

Let me know what you think.

-Linja

[Tribial_Tiger79]

Hello,

Perhapse I am wrong on my information as well. I to have been told most of this stuff but then I have found books writtem by people that were cretable. Then that makes me wonder is the person who wrote the book right?

The point I was trying to make is there is no " best Martial Art" they all have thier faults weather it be crappy foot work, or use way to much power in thier movements to make them inafective, or what ever the fault may be they still had thier purpose, And to me calling any Art crap when they were verry efective for thier time I feel is wrong. I think to my self " who am I to discount an Art that I havn't even taken" I agree I think that most Martial Arts today are not even a shadow of what they once were.

No Mr. Mizaru I feel you did not make me look or feel like a fool.
I am truly sorry if I offended you or made you look or feel like a fool, that was not my intention. You were just voiceing what you know, who am I to judge that.

And Mr. Linja
I know you did not intend for this fourm to become an argument, and for that I am sorry.

Tiger

[gregi696]

I breifly learned Taijiquan when I studied over in Hong Kong. It is more commonly reffered to as Tai Chi in America. Let me say that it is a martial art, but it is considered a soft form of martial arts. I myself could not use to defend myself. You need to train hard for almost ten years before you can use it for combat. I use it as a form of exercise and meditation. Also, Tai Chi is good for your chi flow. If anybody knows anything about it, I learned the Chang style of Tai Chi. I'm not trying to start another arguement, so if you don't think Taijiquan is a form of martial arts, please don't bite my head off.

[DaytonaMaster]

Jumping in a bit late here.

For those looking for a well-rounded matial art, you may wish to consider Hwa Rang Do. It has many facets that make it appealling to those who are not satisfied with some of the more common arts. It contains both soft and hard forms, weapons and unarmed, the one thing that I found most interesting is the fact that it also has healing techniques. If you decide to advance far enough, you can learn traditional Chinese medicine along with accupuncture.

I am not about to say that this is the "best" art around, but it seems to me to be the most well-rounded.

[Linja]

Tribial_Tiger,

Hey man, no problem. You've got no reason to apologise. I think you've been pretty damn polite and have acted in adecent manner. I agree that nearly all martial arts have their weak and strong points, and perhaps that's why the Wing Chun guys lost to the Karate guys, because their particular style of Wing Chun was weak against that particular style of Karate. I also personally believe that if you really want to be effective in a real fight then you have to do contact sparring at some point in time.

-Linja

[talic]

Cappoeria, great for fighting and breakdancing as well