Ive never used a subliminal file.

[jeremiah]

What is the difference?

[DazDude]

They bypass your concious mind alot easier and in somecase work a bit better than the normal mp3's :)

[sandy82]

Jeremiah, Dazdude has focused on the results offered by subliminal files. I can share some layman's observations on the format.

There are both visual and aural subliminal files. The idea in both is that the messages come across so fast or so disguised that the conscious mind doesn't register them, but the subconscious mind does.

Subliminal files do work. Years ago, a movie studio or a movie theater spliced single frames into a first-run flick. One frame was widely separated from another so that the conscious mind wouldn't pick up the connection. These frames said, "I want a Coke from the refreshment stand"--or words to that effect. And Coke sales at the refreshment stand shot up. This subliminal advertising was a victim of its own success. The federal government made such advertising illegal.

The big question people have is: if you can't tell the messages are there, then are they really there? This is evidently a big issue. There's a shareware file called Sublime that devotes a lot of space to assuring users that the messages really do appear on screen....and then implies that its competitors' products aren't so reliable.

Thr question of the messages' existence does not come up on this site. EMG has done a careful job of balancing the considerations. If you listen intently, you can hear all or part of the messages, but under ordinary listening conditions you don't hear them at all.

What is the difference?

[tarantulaman1000]

Actually sandy, that story is a proven hoax, perpetuated by an advertiser. There is no significant, scientific proof supporting subliminal messages, and I would assert that the users of this site experience a placebo effect because they know what a file does. Look at my other topic for details on my planned experiment.

[sandy82]

Thanks for the info! I heard the story from someone who allegedly attended the movie. Under the circumstances, do you have any citations to books or articles detailing that the story is a hoax? They would be fascinating to read.

Although I am stretching the topic somewhat, the question of hidden information is a fascinating one. An art historian studied a nondescript picture for some time, and his experience told him that something was painted underneath. Not knowing what it might be, the art historian arranged for x-rays of his seemingly run-of-the-mill picture. It was the first time that x-rays were successfully used for this purpose. Underneath was an extremely valuable portrait of Thomas Jefferson, painted by a well-known artist and apparently from life. There's a long article, complete with pictures, in a back issue of "American Heritage." I also knew the art historian before he died. He lived near John Lennon when the latter was on Central Park West.

Any pointers you can provide to articles on the hoax would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks in advance.

Actually sandy, that story is a proven hoax, perpetuated by an advertiser. There is no significant, scientific proof supporting subliminal messages, and I would assert that the users of this site experience a placebo effect because they know what a file does. Look at my other topic for details on my planned experiment.

[dharden]

I would assert that the users of this site experience a placebo effect because they know what a file does.

Just to stir the pot, the idea that there may be (and probably is) a placebo effect at work doesn't have to exclude the idea that there may be some effect from repeated exposure to a message that would be consciously perceptible if it weren't disguised or masked.

[sandy82]

Excellent point, dharden. I'm sure there is an effect from repeated exposure to an appealing (or appalling) message, whether masked or consciously perceptible. To me, this is the very basis of television advertising.

Add to the repetition a vastly increased sophistication on subliminal suggestion. No longer is the full message disguised. Now the technique has an external and internal component.

Fancy language for the following. Put a California surfer (male or female, depending on target audience) into an ad for sports cars. The already internalized part of the message may vary from viewer to viewer, but not much. The subconscious reactions can range from "If I had that car, I would know honeys/hunks like that one" to "I remember that first time on the beach, east of Southampton."

Simple flashes of "BMWs make you sexy" are like a manual typewriter compared to today's techniques. Even more, advertisers pay close attention to demographics; and they have a pretty good idea what association patterns are built into the heads of, say, the 18-49 market segment. IOW, they know which triggers to pull because they know what ammo is already loaded.

It seems to me that the best-retained memories are those that link a fact and an emotion. The older generation still remembers exactly where they were and what they were doing when JFK was shot. Everyone remembers the same things about 9/11. The vast majority of fact-emotion links are less dramatic, but no less real in psychological terms.

These days, advertisers can both use and create fact-emotion links.

None of the foregoing surprises me, although it is cause for concern. The PC and Internet have taken it a giant step forward. There are now databases that are built around...just you and me, individually, and our friends and relatives, individually. Commentators have noticed that ads on websites are tailor-made to sites they have visited. Now that computer memory has become so inexpensive, chances are that these files will be cumulative, with one's name on them, for a lifetime.

I read a report in a reputable, national paper last week on how such databases can be used. Recruiting for the volunteer military is down...hardly a surprise. The military is therefore planning a database containing the names of all high school and college students, including name, address, DOB, GPA, etc. They refer to this as "building a platform for future recruiting"--or some such language. Some op-ed writers call it something else.

Word to the wise. Don't buy anything with a credit card that you don't want your health insurance company to know about. The message there is hardly subliminal: the possibility of higher premiums.

I would assert that the users of this site experience a placebo effect because they know what a file does.

Just to stir the pot, the idea that there may be (and probably is) a placebo effect at work doesn't have to exclude the idea that there may be some effect from repeated exposure to a message that would be consciously perceptible if it weren't disguised or masked.

[loadedkaos]

I once remember watching a show I think it was about advertising, but they were showing an old magazine and at first they just flipped through it but then they focused on a full page add in the magazine of a girl on swing with her legs in the air, but if you looked long enough you would notice an extra leg hanging down. The reasoning behind this was to catch the casual readers attention by making a small oddity and also to make it rememberable. If I get more time I'll see if I can find any pics of it.

[sandy82]

Thanks, loadedkaos. That would be an interesting picture to see. I can imagine the reactions to the picture--just as you described them.

[BobbyS]

In the UK there is a program presented by a guy called Derren Brown, a psychological trickster. In one experiment he stands in shopping mall and takes over the store's intercom, before telling customers about the mall's special offers. Of course, they just ignore him and get on with their shopping. However, he then says anyone who wants to use the special offer should stick their hands in the air. Immediately, nearly all (if not all) of the shoppers stick their hands up. That's the power of subliminal messaging.
(BTW at the start of each show, he makes the announcement that he uses no confederates and that no one is 'in' on any of his tricks.)

[isadora]

Alright I am going to try and weigh in on this. I pulled out my psychology text book from my University days (which were 2 years ago, geez I'm ancient).

Anyway on Subliminal messaging, it has a study done on the effectiveness of commercial submilinal messages.

They tested two tapes: those that effected memory and those that effected self-esteem.

However the study showed that in the case of the self-esteem tapes self-esteem rarely improve, and actually in some instances the self-esteem of some subjects decreased.

And in the case of memory? There was no marked improvement that the researchers could see.

Though frustrated that I downloaded TrigNipplePlay I will not give up on it.

Though subliminal messaging does not prove effective in these instances, that doesn't mean it can't work. The mind is a powerful tool, and if you want something to work than it will.

Now I gotta dash to work or else I'd cite my sources, but I'll do it when I get back! *dashdash*