Mystery "sex change" leaves people baffled.

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Mystery "sex change" leaves people baffled.

Postby VeryGnawty » July 14th, 2005, 7:26 am

http://www.paktribune.com/news/index.php?id=112507

article wrote:Mystery ‘sex change’ has curious flocking to Myanmar monk-to-be

Thursday July 14, 2005 (0039 PST)

Thin Sandar, a chicken seller in Myanmar, had always dreamed of being a man. When she inexplicably grew a male organ last month, the 21-year-old treated it as an awe-inspiring omen as have the thousands of stunned villagers who have travelled to a pagoda to see him.

“On the morning of the full moon day of June 21, I noticed my thing (sex organ) was not the same as before,” Thin Sandar, who now goes by the male name Than Sein, told AFP in an interview at his home. “And my breasts disappeared,” Than Sein added. “So I called out and showed it all to my mom and dad. It was very strange.” Strange enough that he has attracted significant attention in this deeply superstitious country, where the unexplained can quickly be exalted to hold powerful spiritual significance.

People privately concede Than Sein is genderless. Several medical experts have examined him, and he awaits test results from the central women’s hospital. But few have come forward with a medical explanation of the transformation as they await an official report by the health ministry, whose experts have also examined Than Sein. “We can not say right now if she has really undergone a sudden gender change,” said a township official that declined to be named, adding that Than Sein’s birth certificate shows that he was born a girl.

“It can be confirmed when we receive the report from the health ministry, although some medical checkups have shown her to be a true man,” he added. Hermaphrodites, also known as intersexuals, are often born with ambiguous genitalia, or have both testicular and ovarian tissue in a single person. Medical doctor Aye Sanda Khaing put it in layman’s terms in a local journal: “Her male organ appeared at the point where it is commonly found in men,” the doctor was quoted as saying.

Regardless of the official findings, local villagers and other curious Myanmar nationals are flocking to the Aung Myay Thar Yar pagoda, in this new satellite township 19 kilometres from Yangon, to see Than Sein for themselves and make donations to him or the temple.

Up to 400 gather at the pagoda each day, often in a courtyard under colorful umbrellas to ward off the sun’s rays, waiting for the chance to talk with and touch Than Sein. “I have never heard of anything like this, so I came to see him,” 21-year-old housewife Thandar Win told AFP.

“If I was not married, then I too would want to become a man!” When word spread of Than Sein’s transformation, locals raced to his home to see for themselves. Authorities, sensing a possible security hazard — and, perhaps, an opportunity — hastily arranged for him to be moved to the pagoda to accommodate more visitors. Than Sein appeared comfortable with the sudden attention in the new surroundings. Wearing a checkered longyi, the traditional Myanmar pants commonly worn by men, he sat on a rug in the pagoda’s side building, flanked by his parents.

“I was so happy,” father Kyaw Htay, 46, said about his son’s developments. “I wanted other sons so they could offer themselves as Buddhist monks, but I had only two daughters.” Occasionally Than Sein stepped out to talk with excited visitors, who shook his hand, stroked his arm, and wished him well.


So, this person accomplished this at the last moon, and he is two years younger than me. However, I haven't achieved such dramatic results in my own efforts. Clearly, my technique is flawed. Maybe I should be praying at the pagoda. Either that, or FtM is much easier than vice-versa.

I have difficulty believing in the verity of this article.

On a completely unrelated note, wasn't that moon the Blue Crystal Moon of the Blue Crystal Year according to the Tzolkin?
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Postby loony28 » July 14th, 2005, 9:57 am

:twisted: All I can say is that if this article is true than it's a testament to how much our bodies can be changed. One night and she/he went from female to male. From the article it seems obvious that there was no trauma to her/his just a bit of a shock at going to bed female and waking up male. This should give some encouragement to those that want to change their gender without surgery. :twisted:
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Re: Mystery "sex change" leaves people baffled.

Postby gregi696 » July 15th, 2005, 12:11 am

VeryGnawty wrote:...So, this person accomplished this at the last moon, and he is two years younger than me. However, I haven't achieved such dramatic results in my own efforts. Clearly, my technique is flawed. Maybe I should be praying at the pagoda. Either that, or FtM is much easier than vice-versa.

I have difficulty believing in the verity of this article.

On a completely unrelated note, wasn't that moon the Blue Crystal Moon of the Blue Crystal Year according to the Tzolkin?


As far as FtM transformations being easier...well it has been a little while since my last biology class but I believe,and please correct me if I'm wrong, that female is the "generic" sex for the developing baby.
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Re: Mystery "sex change" leaves people baffled.

Postby VeryGnawty » July 15th, 2005, 12:15 am

gregi696 wrote:
As far as FtM transformations being easier...well it has been a little while since my last biology class but I believe,and please correct me if I'm wrong, that female is the "generic" sex for the developing baby.


Male is just a mutation from the female. Therefore, the FtM has to cause the mutation for transformation, and the MtF has to reverse the mutation for transformation....
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Postby makidas » July 15th, 2005, 1:53 am

Where did you find that article? That's amazing if it's true! :)
I may be wrong....

But what happens if I'm right?
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Postby VeryGnawty » July 15th, 2005, 5:21 am

makidas wrote:Where did you find that article? That's amazing if it's true! :)


I found it linked at http://www.susans.org (I'm a moderator there). Further search revealed the article in quite a few places, but it always seems to be from the same source. I wish I could find a different source. Otherwise, the truth of the article is highly questionable.
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Postby loony28 » July 19th, 2005, 8:43 pm

:twisted: I think it may be true. It gives us the possibility that the human body can dramatically change in a short time. There is another explanation as to how this occurred. Many of you might find it easier to accept. Science is starting to say that there may be different universes other than our own. Now with this idea it could be that he/she somehow switched bodies with his/her counterpart in one of the other universes and his/her mind stayed in this one. That would account for how fast it happened and why he/she apparently didn't feel anything through the night. :twisted:
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Postby Red_Gambit » July 20th, 2005, 1:05 am

No offense, but that theory is more far fetched than the idea of a physical transformation.
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Yes but...

Postby Primus » September 9th, 2005, 4:28 pm

I agree that the thought of body swaping is indeed farfetched scientifically isn't the big bang theory farfetched... infact scientifically bees can't fly either. So even if it is farfetched that doesn't make it true


"Life will find a way"
~Dr Ian Malcom
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Postby Creanta » May 4th, 2007, 6:25 am

Sorry all, but I have heard of this - its a genetic disease. It's kinda like a variation on androgen insensitivity - except that you're only immune to weaker forms of androgens. Puberty hits and with it comes a rush of strong androgens you're not immune to - and with it comes aparent sex change. Actually male all along - female is just the 'default' developmental pathway, so without androgens, you appear female, but you're also not producing the female level of hormones either. It's very common in one particular region of northern Europe from memory.

Sorry to say it, but you really can't change your genes through force of will - generally you're born with something, or something changes while you're alive and you get some kind of cancer.
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Postby loony28 » May 4th, 2007, 6:43 am

Creanta wrote:Sorry all, but I have heard of this - its a genetic disease. It's kinda like a variation on androgen insensitivity - except that you're only immune to weaker forms of androgens. Puberty hits and with it comes a rush of strong androgens you're not immune to - and with it comes aparent sex change. Actually male all along - female is just the 'default' developmental pathway, so without androgens, you appear female, but you're also not producing the female level of hormones either. It's very common in one particular region of northern Europe from memory.

Sorry to say it, but you really can't change your genes through force of will - generally you're born with something, or something changes while you're alive and you get some kind of cancer.


I'm sorry to say this but your arguement here just doesn't hold water. While I don't doubt the validity of this genetic disease, it just doesn't apply here. If you read the article you will notice that the gal was 21 when this happened, well past the start of puberty. This means that it couldn't have been caused by a flood of androgens at puberty.
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Postby oh2bpreg » May 4th, 2007, 4:27 pm

hoax (as most of these far fetched stories in third world countries are)
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Postby loony28 » May 4th, 2007, 9:42 pm

oh2bpreg wrote:hoax (as most of these far fetched stories in third world countries are)


Could you explain this a bit more.
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Postby oh2bpreg » May 5th, 2007, 1:59 pm

loony28 wrote:
oh2bpreg wrote:hoax (as most of these far fetched stories in third world countries are)


Could you explain this a bit more.


hoax
Function: noun
1 : an act intended to trick or dupe
2 : something accepted or established by fraud or fabrication
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Postby loony28 » May 5th, 2007, 2:23 pm

oh2bpreg wrote:
loony28 wrote:
oh2bpreg wrote:hoax (as most of these far fetched stories in third world countries are)


Could you explain this a bit more.


hoax
Function: noun
1 : an act intended to trick or dupe
2 : something accepted or established by fraud or fabrication


:lol: Perhaps I should have been clearer as I do know what a hoax is. What I meant was why do you think it's a hoax? Did you find another article refuting this? I'll admit that it could be a hoax but somehow I don't think it is.
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Postby oh2bpreg » May 5th, 2007, 9:43 pm

The clue is in the following sentence from the article:
Several medical experts have examined him, and he awaits test results from the central women’s hospital.


So the test results weren't available when the article was written (despite it being written 3 weeks after the supposed change) So, go find the follow up article once the results were available.

Want me to save you the time? There is no such article. In fact the only article about this transformation is the one that was posted here. Kinda odd that only one newspaper would cover such an event (other places just reprinted the original article) Surely some other news organization would've done their own story on something like this. The Discovery Network has done tons of show on medical mysteries and abnormalities in in third world countries, yet, nothing on this one. New England Journal of Medicine (or any other medical journal)? Surprisingly, not the least bit interested into investigating what could be a new disease, side effect to something in the area, or as the article suggests, the power of the mind. All of which would give whatever doctor to diagnose it some instant medical street cred.

If nothing else you'd at least expect an article saying "Than enjoying first year as man" or something. But nope. Nothing.

Also kind of odd that AFP, the news organization that supposedly distributed the story does not have it in their archives.
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Postby loony28 » May 7th, 2007, 9:51 pm

oh2bpreg wrote:The clue is in the following sentence from the article:
Several medical experts have examined him, and he awaits test results from the central women’s hospital.


So the test results weren't available when the article was written (despite it being written 3 weeks after the supposed change) So, go find the follow up article once the results were available.

Want me to save you the time? There is no such article. In fact the only article about this transformation is the one that was posted here. Kinda odd that only one newspaper would cover such an event (other places just reprinted the original article) Surely some other news organization would've done their own story on something like this. The Discovery Network has done tons of show on medical mysteries and abnormalities in in third world countries, yet, nothing on this one. New England Journal of Medicine (or any other medical journal)? Surprisingly, not the least bit interested into investigating what could be a new disease, side effect to something in the area, or as the article suggests, the power of the mind. All of which would give whatever doctor to diagnose it some instant medical street cred.

If nothing else you'd at least expect an article saying "Than enjoying first year as man" or something. But nope. Nothing.

Also kind of odd that AFP, the news organization that supposedly distributed the story does not have it in their archives.


Well I can refute your points so here goes. With the story being copied by other newspapers and only one source, it's not that odd. Take the US media. Most of the stories you read in the paper are AP stories, the newspapers just copy those stories and don't do their own investigation. As to the article not being in the archives, well it's possible that they are embarrassed by the story and so never archived it. Test results can take quite a while to complete and the results may would have been sown to the family only. As to a follow up, there may have been one but it may be difficult to find. The discovery channel may not have heard of this or they may not believe that such could happen (personally I would say the latter possibilty is the correct one). There aren't many doctors that would stake their careers on one mysterious gender change.
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Postby oh2bpreg » May 8th, 2007, 2:56 pm

And I can refute your refutes.
With the story being copied by other newspapers and only one source, it's not that odd. Take the US media.


Actually, while it is true that only one local story is used by the news outlets (Reuters, AP, etc) for distribution to the rest of the state, country, world, you can find various coverages on the local level (which, thanks to the internet, can be easily found) But big stories always solicit more coverage, rather than depending on one source. Hell, a few years back here in the DC area (suburbs actually) there was a stain on an overpass support beam that some thought looked like the Virgin Mary (I never saw it) that alone got different reports from 6 local tv stations, at least 4 radio stations, and at least 5 newspapers. And that's just for a freaking stain. A stain is far less newsworthy than a sex change granted by God. And the stain at least got follow up coverage when the highway maintenance crew cleaned up the Virgin Mary stain.

As to the article not being in the archives, well it's possible that they are embarrassed by the story and so never archived it.

Why would they be embarrassed about it? Only reason to be embarrassed is if they reported it only to find out that it's not true. If it is "embarrassing" for some other reason, they could've just not distributed it in the first place.

Test results can take quite a while to complete and the results may would have been sown to the family only.

True test results do take a while, hence why you'd expect to find a follow up article. But the results only being shown to the family argument doesn't hold water. They make a huge deal over this miracle ask everyone to come to their town, shower them with gifts and witness God's miracle. But as soon as they get the results, they don't say anything? If the results supported their statement, they would've shouted that just as loud, if not louder. If the test results didn't support they're claim, that's when you don't say anything. The situation reminds me a lot fo the Raelians claims to having successfully cloned humans, but as soon as they were asked to provide any sort of proof they quickly went back into the cave that they emerged from.

As to a follow up, there may have been one but it may be difficult to find.
Why would it be any harder to find than the original article?

The discovery channel may not have heard of this or they may not believe that such could happen (personally I would say the latter possibilty is the correct one).
I assure you, the producers of the medical mysteries shows would have heard of this. And they would've done some investigating into it. These are people who have traveled all the way to Morocco to interview a woman who was "pregnant for 46 years" (the baby actually died in utero, and she just carried the dead baby within in her for 46 years) They traveled to India to cover a story about a pregnant man (actually suffered from a rare condition called fetus in fetu)

There aren't many doctors that would stake their careers on one mysterious gender change.
You're kidding right? Turn on late night tv. Look at all the commercials with doctors testifying how a certain weight loss pill, exercise equipment, penis and breast enlargement pills, hair growth foams, skin improvement creams, etc. etc. works guaranteed (despite the disclaimers saying "results not typical" and that their product is not regulated or has been tested by the FDA) There are plenty of doctors out there that finished last in their class, are hurting for cash, or are just narcissistic enough to want fame to try to capitalize on a miracle like this.

And of course all of this is assuming that the story has more truth than your average Weekly World News article (i.e. not completely fabricated)
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Postby loony28 » May 8th, 2007, 9:48 pm

This issue won't be settled that easily you know. You do make some good arguements except for the doctors. What you sited doctors do do but a complete gender change without any medical explanation is quite different from those creams and pills that have at least a theoretical medical explanation.
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Postby oh2bpreg » May 9th, 2007, 5:50 pm

I am curious why some people seem to believe that this is true. Is it wishful thinking? Naiveness? Let's be honest, if some guy came up to you off the street and mentioned that less than 24 hours ago he was a woman, we'd all write him off as drunk, drugged out, a smart ass, etc. So why is it that a story about the same thing happening to a person in a third world country halfway around the world has people believing.

Is it because some foreign newspaper ran the story and one news agency foolishly distributes it without checking it out? Just because something makes a news site does not mean it's true. Why, just last week, CNN (both web and TV), Yahoo news, etc. ran stories about gullible Japanese people buying sheep thinking that they were dogs. But whoops.... Turns out that the news bureaus were the gullible ones. [url]http://www.snopes.com/critters/lurkers/poodlesheep.asp[/url] So the news sites who did report are kinda quietly sweeping their involvement under the rug.

So I ask, why are people willing to throw common sense out the window and embrace this story.
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Postby VeryGnawty » May 28th, 2007, 2:06 am

Seeing as how I can't find any other articles relating to this affect, I'm sure this is completely bogus.
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Postby mandy783 » May 28th, 2007, 7:12 pm

Hi,

Not that you have any reason to believe me but I remember way back in Biology in High School our teacher mentioned a tribe in Papua New Guinea where this had happened on several occasions and was still happening. It was to do with androgen immunity someone else mentioned causing the body not to develop male characteristics until puberty

This story could indeed be true - it's not a unique phenomenon - but it's incredibly unlikely. The fact that she was so old could be ignored, puberty can take that long to occur if something's delaying it (disease/disorders etc). However, she said her breasts disappeared, meaning she had grown them already during puberty, making the whole androgen immunity thing invalid.
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