Rating System

[Calimore]

Someone just told me in IRC that they went to rate one of my files and found that they couldn't rate my or anyone's files. Then, someone else chimed in that they couldn't rate files, either. I checked it out and it doesn't seem to be accepting any ratings right now. Thought I'd let you know, just in case you didn't.

Oh, and there is a premium user who is going through and rating almost every file a '1', even ones he hasn't downloaded. I have a good idea of who it is and he's an idiot, but everyone is entitled to their opinion, even jerks. Perhaps there's a way to set it up so that one cannot vote on a file until they have downloaded it? At least then someone would have to at click on a file and cancel their download before they crapped in an author's face.

Just a thought .

[zapnosis]

Alternatively, I'd suggest that we could scrap the number rating system and let the comments to speak for themselves. After all, the fact that someone unknown person rated a file 3 out of 5, for example, doesn't really tell you much, does it?

[FloridaPuppy]

Alternatively, I'd suggest that we could scrap the number rating system and let the comments to speak for themselves. After all, the fact that someone unknown person rated a file 3 out of 5, for example, doesn't really tell you much, does it?

The problem with that is people are often reluctant to leave a comment, I have a file with over a thousand downloads and it has 5 comments... two from me, two from someone with a blank comment, and one from someone asking how much it requires another file I made previously. There are a lot of other files from other people with similar things.

[boomsmee]

yea lack of feedback has been a pretty big issue here. Even when posting a request for feedback on the forums, I only got one response, and that was a response saying they couldn't download the files because they wern't a premium user. It would be nice for some files to be able to set them as free for everyone immediately at release, rather than 6 months later so we can get feedback.

[slutinmyhead]

The lack of feedback frustrates the hell out of me, especially when you think you produced something good but it's not getting the ratings. I'm trying to consistently improve, which directly benefits our audience. You'd think they'd pile on the feedback. But they don't think it though... Sigh...

Imagine how good we could all become if we got real data back. We could rule the world!

I only started making pay files the past year or so because it made what I do worth something. I'd have ten times the amount of files I've made currently for this site if I got more feedback. But other areas of my life give me more return, so I drift towards them instead.

Btw, my personal feeling is that if you're contributing files to this site, you don't have to pay for mine. PM me. They're free. However, if you're not otherwise contributing, please buy my files. That counts as feedback too.

[darkerlife]

Maybe you should have a questionnaire program that sends a poll or something to your account asking you to rate a file a week or two after you download it. Other wise I have to find all the inductions I have tried and rate them, I got quite a few, and they are not all clearly labeled by artist. Of course I'm still in beginner mode when it comes to being put into trance. On that note, not sure if my vote would really be worth anything at all since I still have trouble settling into a trance.

this is a quick edit to what I just posted. The poll should also include user experience so when you get data back you know if its from someone new like me or somebody who's more practiced.

[bandler]

When rating files,

Some people are confused and think 1 is best and 5 is worst.

Some people think a file is great and rate it a 4.

Other people think a file is above average and rate it a 5.

Some people are experts and know a file should only be a 4 not a 5 and rate it a 1 to bring it down to where it 'should' be.

When I first started here, I downloaded the files that had high ratings. Mostly they sucked out loud: poor editing, terrible sound quality, distracting accents and mis-pronunciations...

Eventually I found a few authors that made files I could enjoy. Some are rated highly, others not.

bottom line?

file ratings are almost useless.

[ohyouknow]

I've always found the ratings helpful in one respect: anything rated less than 4 is almost certainly not worth downloading. A high rating doesn't guarantee quality but a low rating is a fairly reliable indication of lack of quality.

[Jeshi]

I've always found the ratings helpful in one respect: anything rated less than 4 is almost certainly not worth downloading. A high rating doesn't guarantee quality but a low rating is a fairly reliable indication of lack of quality.

I disagree. Sometimes people rate things low because it wasn't what they expected based on poor descriptions, but the file can still be really great.

An example would be ThrobbyBobby's Come To Me file. Somehow the metadata got mixed up and it says it's meant for straight men when really it is meant for gay men. Because of this, lots of straight men download it then rate it low because they realize it's a file about wanking off while staring into a powerful man's eyes. Not for their audience like they thought.

I think it might make sense to follow Youtube's steps and switch to a "Like/Dislike" system instead of numbers.

Or maybe "Like/Needs Work/Dislike"?

---

I think the reason feedback is low is because there is a separation between downloading the file and listening to it. When you're done listening you typically aren't near the computer, so we don't remember to get around to giving feedback.

What if we set up some system where downloading a file while logged in "flagged" the file as downloaded recently by you. Then the next time you come to the site you'd have some little visible area(on the splash page after you log in where it tells you when your premium expires maybe?) That would say something along the lines of

"Have you listened to TrainSleep yet? If so, would you like to give feedback?" and then a link to the file to go rate and comment next to a link to dismiss the message.

I feel this reminder would probably increase feedback a lot.

[zapnosis]

Hmmm... having written feedback is great - I usually send a "thank you" PM for any constructive comments or messages and some of the resulting communication has been just awesome. But I reckon for many people this is a completely private thing, especially if they're just testing the water, and they feel no need to get further involved or draw any attention to themselves. I respect that.

The number system, for all its faults, at least gives people a chance to respond while keeping their privacy and it does not mistake popularity for quality. I don't really care whether or not people "like" my files, I'm not in the business of entertainment. I want to know when the files have worked and given people an experience to remember!

Maybe that's just me. *shrug*
ZAP

[sarnoga]

Hello everyone,

I've always found the ratings helpful in one respect: anything rated less than 4 is almost certainly not worth downloading. A high rating doesn't guarantee quality but a low rating is a fairly reliable indication of lack of quality.

As mentioned by many in this thread, helpful feedback is, at times, a bit scarse on this site. But occasionally I do get some feedback and I would like to thank everyone that provides feedback on my files whether publicly or privately.

Of course some feedback is more useful than others but it is all welcome. If someone takes the time to tell me they like my file or they hate my file or it just didn't do much for them, etc... I am always pleased to hear from them. The fact that they thought about my file enough to leave or send a comment is pleasing on it's own. Of course I love to hear someone tell me they love a particular file, but even if they hate it I am pleased when they take the time to comment.

Comments that try to articulate what or why someone liked or didn't like a particular file is more useful, but the truth is that getting comments is enjoyable whether useful or not and provides some reward for the free files I post. Though I am begining to think like Slutinmyhead that making pay files might provide a better reward for my effort.

Comments and feedback are one thing. The rating system is another. Based on the limited feedback I get, I have to disagree with ohyouknow's assessment of the rating system. I have quite a few files rated below a 4 on which I have recieved a fair amount of positive feedback. (Around here a fair amount could be any at all).

Without rehashing all of the reasons articulated by bandler, which seem to be an accurate assessment, I agree with his conclusion that has been quoted below.

bottom line?

file ratings are almost useless.

About the only thing the ratings reveal is how many people took the time to rate a file. Beyond that, while it can be "FUN" to see a high rating on one of my files, the ratings are... as bandler says... "almost useless."

Before continuing, let me say to Calimore that you put into practice what you suggests as far as commenting on files. You have made thoughtful comments on a number of my files. I enjoy the comments and they often help me refine my craft. And it is not just Calimore, it is Calimore and a few others who consistently comment. I find myself looking over comments wondering what Calimore or one of the others who comment frequently, have to say about a file. Of course not all files will interest any particular person so I do not expect to get comments from everyone on every file. (laugh, as if there is a danger of that.)

What many listeners do not realize is that those who do comment regularly end up being the ones who, to some degree, influence what direction my files take and what gets made and what doesn't. When listeners fail to provide feedback they are giving up thier chance to influence what gets made and what doesn't, or how it gets made, and what they are likely to find in a file.

I pay much more attention to suggestions from someone who gives regular feedback than I do some stranger who out of the blue requests this file or that. One thing I tend to completely ignore is someone posting in the forums asking would someone please make this file or that file, when the person doing the asking has never so much as commented on one of my files. To me such requests in the forums remind me of the song "fly trouble" by Hank Williams Sr.

Calimore's suggestion is interesting. Though it does seem subject to some of the other flaws mentioned. There could be many ways to encourage or force ratings or comments. For example, that someone has downloaded a file doesn't mean they have listened to it, or that they were not just disapointed with the file because it was not what they expected.

One could make it so that a file could not be rated without leaving a comment. Though that might just further reduce input. One could set up a system so that only a set or predetermined number of files can be downloaded without providing feedback. It might work like this....

You can download up to 15 files. Every time you download a file it is put on your list and counts against the 15. (it could be any number) Leaving a comment on a file you have downloaded clears that file from your total so that slot is available for another download.

One way to almost guaruntee comments would be to award credits toward premium membership for commenting on files. 30 comments = 1 month free membership. This though would probably be a nightmare for EMG with people clammoring for their 1 month free membership that they think they didn't get or didn't get yet. Also, while that would provide many comments I do not see the utility for EMG in providing premium membership simply for leaving comments and any comments left based on such a system are likely to be subject to the flaws I mention in the paragraph below. Even having said that, I like the idea of a limit on downloads as I suggested in the previous paragraph.

One problem with all of the solutions I have thought of is that they may do nothing more than cause people to make prefunctory comments and ratings that have no value beyond that they are occasionally entertaining. That leaves me in agreement with zapnosis' assessment of the situation.

Alternatively, I'd suggest that we could scrap the number rating system and let the comments to speak for themselves. After all, the fact that someone unknown person rated a file 3 out of 5, for example, doesn't really tell you much, does it? (Bold added for emphasis.)

So I am all ready to advocate scrapping the number rating system. Then along comes Jeshi and makes some valid and well thought out comments that change my mind.

I think it might make sense to follow Youtube's steps and switch to a "Like/Dislike" system instead of numbers.

Or maybe "Like/Needs Work/Dislike"?

---

I think the reason feedback is low is because there is a separation between downloading the file and listening to it. When you're done listening you typically aren't near the computer, so we don't remember to get around to giving feedback.

What if we set up some system where downloading a file while logged in "flagged" the file as downloaded recently by you. Then the next time you come to the site you'd have some little visible area(on the splash page after you log in where it tells you when your premium expires maybe?) That would say something along the lines of

"Have you listened to TrainSleep yet? If so, would you like to give feedback?" and then a link to the file to go rate and comment next to a link to dismiss the message.

I feel this reminder would probably increase feedback a lot.

I am sorely tempted to argue for scrapping the number rating system as zapnosis suggested. However, Jeshi's suggestions seem to have merit and while I guess that to follow them all would be to scrap the "number" rating system, I would like to see if they would help the situation before we scrap a rating system alltogeather.

I think his suggestion of a reminder to encourage ratings and comments might work without being overly intrusive. Also, I'd like to see if changing from a number ratiing system to a like/dislike makes the ratings any more useful. I think darkerlife's comments and suggestions were also good.

Anyway, that is my 2 Pfennige.

Regards,

Sarnoga

[zapnosis]

Another idea: perhaps 3 categories to rate a file on. Maybe "voice" "sound quality" and "effect", rate out of 5? Could introduce more thought into the process and make the rating actually mean something.

[ohyouknow]

I should have said that a low rating based on a low number of votes certainly doesn't necessarily mean a poor file. I myself have been an early commenter and high rater of certain files which hadn't yet received any votes at all.

[kitsukat]

I personally like reading feedback from people who have tried files I'm interested in listening to because they give me a good idea of what to expect from the file. It really irks me if there's either no feedback or that feedback there is isn't actually feedback (like it's a conversation with the hypnotist instead or something along those lines.)