advice please

[aezrin2]

Well hello to you all. my name is aezrin. iwant totrythe fem files but i'm not sure if it's right for me, let me explain. for years i have had desires to cross-dress and wear makeup. i have wonder alway if i should be a woman. I'm just not sure, my heart says yes but my head says no. the things in life i want such as children and family have swayed me from trying, but the desire is still the. i get off on the thought and am like stupid u like girls and i do. every day i debat wether or not to listen to fem files. usually i don't b/c of fear that it isn't right even though most of the time it feels so right. what should i do? please help me if you can, advice will be greatly appreiciated. thanx aezrin

[Kurai]

No one person can give you the right answer to your question. You are the only person who could answer it... But if you want my op. Go for it, Happiness is never gained with out risk. Good luck.

[Ace_Rimmer]

http://transsexual.org/cgi-bin/cgitest.exe?

Take the test; it may help you out.

[axedarkdemon14]

that test is rubbish and also all online test's are crap because the answers to the questions could be something which you have never thought or would even think about but i do not like anything to do with masterbating or sex so if any of those questions come up i do not answer them.

[VeryGnawty]

I also agree that the test is rubbish.

When in doubt, follow your heart.

[demigraff]

I took that test just to see what it said. Apparently, it thinks I'm androgynous (scored 105), which kind of surprises me.

[makidas]

Happiness is never gained with out risk.

Ooooookay.

When in doubt, follow your heart.

What if your heart says you should jump off a bridge and kill yourself.

[Jack]

When in doubt, follow your heart.

What if your heart says you should jump off a bridge and kill yourself.[/quote]Give it a month or two, then ask again.

[sandy82]

Advice will be greatly appreciated.

Happiness is never gained with out risk.

When in doubt, follow your heart.

What if your heart says you should jump off a bridge and kill yourself.

Give it a month or two, then ask again.

If, after a month or two, you hear the same answer, try a slightly different approach. Go see a doctor and a lawyer. Make sure their malpractice insurance is paid up. Then ask each to send you a registered letter saying:

1. Happiness is never gained without risk.
2. When in doubt, follow your heart.

Don't hold your breath while waiting for the letters.

Moral of the story: Advice on risk-taking and heart-following is freely given when the givers bear no responsibility for what they say.

Note to Aezrin: It seems that you feel a responsibility to other people and and an attachment to ideas larger than yourself. You deserve great credit for that. At the same time, be careful who you take advice from. Let's use me as the example: I'm a stranger; why should you take my advice? I have volunteered for your skepticism. Look very closely at strangers who advise you to take potentially large steps in which they have no personal stake whatever.

Makidas and Jack are right.
.

[Kurai]

Thanx Makidas, Sandy and Jack, Skip right over the Important part when I said " No one person can answer that for you, you are the only person that can answer that" Lets shoot strait over to the corny line "Happiness is never gained without risk." :roll: cheesy? yes, but still a nice thing to say.

What if your heart says you should jump off a bridge and kill yourself.

Yes I see your argument, but... It's obvious that if you tell a suicidal person that, there gonna go strait for that bridge. He said "Follow your heart" Becuase aezrin2 is undicided. If his heart holds to the connection that is stoping him in the first place it's obvious he won't do it. But if his heart says the other than you know... I beleave that way of thinking is Romanticism, when you follow your heart and not your head... But seeing as we are in place where the MIND is important, I guess what we said is wrong. But a bunch of starngers will never answer this question right. It's obvious something is holding you back, so I'll answer your question with a question.

" Is Being a woman more Important than the things that hold you back?"
There that's the best I can do for you at 12:30 in the am. Goodnight and goodluck hope things work out for you.

[Kurai]

Moral of the story: Advice on risk-taking and heart-following is freely given when the givers bear no responsibility for what they say.

Forgot to tell you this sandy. Truthfully speaking, I really like what you said here. Very Very good thing to say, and beleave me this is no sarcasim. Can think of almost nothing to debate with this line. Gonna have ta remember it.

[VeryGnawty]

Ok, let me rephrase, and explain why it is logical, in this case, to follow the heart. Aezrin said that the heart says yes and the head says no. Clearly, Aezrin has been following the head, which has only led to distress and confusion, and the need to discuss the issue on internet forums. So, obviously, trying a different approach (such as following the heart) seems like a logical conclusion. That's why I say that when you are in doubt, follow the heart.

Of course, it's possible the heart and the head contain the wrong choice, in which case you are totally screwed.

Then again, this is only an attempt to confuse the heart in the head in such a way that my advice is good no matter which path you take. So...meh

[sandy82]

A MESSAGE FOR AEZRIN AND FOR VG

FOR VG:

VG, you are highly irresponsible. If you know shame, you should feel it.

Aezrin has a big problem on his mind, and what you do? In the first paragraph, complete with highlighting, you say that it is logical for him to "follow his heart." In the second paragraph, you say he might be screwed if he follows his heart. In the third paragraph, you say you wrote the first two in such that you will look good, whatever happens.

You indulge in the fallacy of false alternatives, to the possible harm of another person. Then you use words like "clearly" and "obviously"--which are code for your having no clue what you're talking about. You use them frequently. I have come to the uneasy conclusion that you really don't care what harm you might do.

I may sound politically incorrect. In fact, I hope I do. My principal goal here is to be clear.

Everybody has some kinks. It's part of the human condition. I'm willing to wager that almost everyone has some sort of conflict between the head and the heart. Most people deal with it, either through compromise, good judgment, self-appraisal---or by living with the "dissonance," which is the term that political scientists use when referring to the phenomenon.

"Dissonance" occurs much more often than the average person realizes. In the last election, many people voted against their own long-term interests because the candidate they voted for said, with a straight face, that he would keep The Pledge of Allegiance just as it is. Can a voter below the poverty line eat the The Pledge of Allegiance?

FOR AEZRIN AND VG:

I have read Aezrin's post very closely. He says he wants children and a family and that he likes women. Now, those are very large and important, long-term considerations. There are a a number of straight men who have a secret longing to cross-dress. As long as they have the judgment and self-control to deal with the desires without being consumed by them, then so what?

Twenty years from now, which would be more important for a decent guy like Aezrin, who has a few quirks: (1) children, a family, and a woman he likes/loves, or (2) some bottles of half-used make-up and some women's clothes that don't fit?

I also get the feeling that Aezrin really cares about what his friends and relatives think of him....his old school friends, his brothers and sisters, his aunts and uncles, his cousins, his pastor. That's called a personal reputation, and Aezrin puts some importance on it. So do many people.

Interpersonal relationships are a two-way street. You give and you get. You can't expect everyone else to endorse whatever *you* decide to do. If you do certain things, you lose your friends and the respect of people you care about...and who used to care about you. Aezrin understands that.

AND FOR AEZRIN HIMSELF:

The following comments are directed straight to Aezrin. Decide what you think is best for you in the long run. Not today or tomorrow or even next year. In the long run. Then let your judgment rule your emotions. Sometimes, that will be painful; but most people have that sort of pain. It's part of living and part of life.

Go for the family, the children, the woman you like/love. Remember that your reputation as Aezrin, the man, is important to you.

Everybody has their weaknesses. Some people will overeat, if given the chance. Other people will drink too much if they have liquor in the house. For these people, the worst thing they can do is to listen to a file that says over-eating is okay. The worst thing for someone with a drinking problem is to listen to a file that says getting drunk is okay.

For you, the worst thing is to listen to any file that says that cross-dressing or sex-change is okay. Same reason as for the eaters and the drinkers. If you have a weakness, don't encourage it.

In my first post to you, I said:

"be careful who you take advice from. Let's use me as the example: I'm a stranger; why should you take my advice? I have volunteered for your skepticism. Look very closely at strangers who advise you to take potentially large steps in which they have no personal stake whatever."

I emphasize that point again.

Here I want to make a special point. Take the time and go back and read the posts written by those who have offered advice. In one particular case, you may find someone with no humor, no sense of proportion. A person of slightly above-average intelligence who would have you believe he's a genius. His motto seems to be "Misery Loves Company." A more boring person rarely existed. No girlfriends when he saw himself as a man. No boyfriends now that he poses as a woman. I suspect that hungry stray dogs run the other way when they see him coming.

Do you want to wind up like that?

Choose the family, the children, the woman you like/love....and your extended group of friends and family. Leave this forum alone. In fact, if you know what's good for you in the long run, leave this site and don't come back. No reason to tempt fate or to risk following bad advice.

Some people think it's funny when somebody hurts or damages himself. These people are called sadists, and this world has its share. Do you want these people laughing at you in the future because you took bad advice?

I think you have better judgment than that. I think that's why you asked your question in the first place.

All my best wishes to you for a bright and happy future. Work on it! Remember that you have people on your side.

Sandy
.

[VeryGnawty]

Sandy82, I applaud your honesty. I apologize in advance to the people who will be upset by this post, for I am sure it will be more than one.

VG, you are highly irresponsible.

That's possible.

Here I want to make a special point. Take the time and go back and read the posts written by those who have offered advice. In one particular case, you may find someone with no humor, no sense of proportion.

A sense of humor, yes. A sense of proportion, probably not.

A person of slightly above-average intelligence who would have you believe he's a genius.

I apologize if I come across as wanting you to believe I am a genius. I am not.

His motto seems to be "Misery Loves Company." A more boring person rarely existed. No girlfriends when he saw himself as a man. No boyfriends now that he poses as a woman. I suspect that hungry stray dogs run the other way when they see him coming.

I'm sorry that you suspect such details about my personal life. I would debunk your claims, but this is not the place to do that. This thread is already out of hand.

Leave this forum alone. In fact, if you know what's good for you in the long run, leave this site and don't come back.

Actually, I think I'll take this advice. It has been apparent for quite some time that several people of great weight in these forums do not appreciate my presence here. I thought this would be a good place to share my project. Apparently, I was wrong. I wish everyone luck in their future endeavors.

[gurlbidesign]

A MESSAGE FOR AEZRIN AND FOR VG

FOR VG:

VG, you are highly irresponsible. If you know shame, you should feel it.

Aezrin has a big problem on his mind, and what you do? In the first paragraph, complete with highlighting, you say that it is logical for him to "follow his heart." In the second paragraph, you say he might be screwed if he follows his heart. In the third paragraph, you say you wrote the first two in such that you will look good, whatever happens.

You indulge in the fallacy of false alternatives, to the possible harm of another person. Then you use words like "clearly" and "obviously"--which are code for your having no clue what you're talking about. You use them frequently. I have come to the uneasy conclusion that you really don't care what harm you might do.

I may sound politically incorrect. In fact, I hope I do. My principal goal here is to be clear.

Everybody has some kinks. It's part of the human condition. I'm willing to wager that almost everyone has some sort of conflict between the head and the heart. Most people deal with it, either through compromise, good judgment, self-appraisal---or by living with the "dissonance," which is the term that political scientists use when referring to the phenomenon.

"Dissonance" occurs much more often than the average person realizes. In the last election, many people voted against their own long-term interests because the candidate they voted for said, with a straight face, that he would keep The Pledge of Allegiance just as it is. Can a voter below the poverty line eat the The Pledge of Allegiance?

FOR AEZRIN AND VG:

I have read Aezrin's post very closely. He says he wants children and a family and that he likes women. Now, those are very large and important, long-term considerations. There are a a number of straight men who have a secret longing to cross-dress. As long as they have the judgment and self-control to deal with the desires without being consumed by them, then so what?

Twenty years from now, which would be more important for a decent guy like Aezrin, who has a few quirks: (1) children, a family, and a woman he likes/loves, or (2) some bottles of half-used make-up and some women's clothes that don't fit?

I also get the feeling that Aezrin really cares about what his friends and relatives think of him....his old school friends, his brothers and sisters, his aunts and uncles, his cousins, his pastor. That's called a personal reputation, and Aezrin puts some importance on it. So do many people.

Interpersonal relationships are a two-way street. You give and you get. You can't expect everyone else to endorse whatever *you* decide to do. If you do certain things, you lose your friends and the respect of people you care about...and who used to care about you. Aezrin understands that.

AND FOR AEZRIN HIMSELF:

The following comments are directed straight to Aezrin. Decide what you think is best for you in the long run. Not today or tomorrow or even next year. In the long run. Then let your judgment rule your emotions. Sometimes, that will be painful; but most people have that sort of pain. It's part of living and part of life.

Go for the family, the children, the woman you like/love. Remember that your reputation as Aezrin, the man, is important to you.

Everybody has their weaknesses. Some people will overeat, if given the chance. Other people will drink too much if they have liquor in the house. For these people, the worst thing they can do is to listen to a file that says over-eating is okay. The worst thing for someone with a drinking problem is to listen to a file that says getting drunk is okay.

For you, the worst thing is to listen to any file that says that cross-dressing or sex-change is okay. Same reason as for the eaters and the drinkers. If you have a weakness, don't encourage it.

In my first post to you, I said:

"be careful who you take advice from. Let's use me as the example: I'm a stranger; why should you take my advice? I have volunteered for your skepticism. Look very closely at strangers who advise you to take potentially large steps in which they have no personal stake whatever."

I emphasize that point again.

Here I want to make a special point. Take the time and go back and read the posts written by those who have offered advice. In one particular case, you may find someone with no humor, no sense of proportion. A person of slightly above-average intelligence who would have you believe he's a genius. His motto seems to be "Misery Loves Company." A more boring person rarely existed. No girlfriends when he saw himself as a man. No boyfriends now that he poses as a woman. I suspect that hungry stray dogs run the other way when they see him coming.

Do you want to wind up like that?

Choose the family, the children, the woman you like/love....and your extended group of friends and family. Leave this forum alone. In fact, if you know what's good for you in the long run, leave this site and don't come back. No reason to tempt fate or to risk following bad advice.

Some people think it's funny when somebody hurts or damages himself. These people are called sadists, and this world has its share. Do you want these people laughing at you in the future because you took bad advice?

I think you have better judgment than that. I think that's why you asked your question in the first place.

All my best wishes to you for a bright and happy future. Work on it! Remember that you have people on your side.

Sandy
.

I mostly agree with you Sandy, the reason I didn't post here is because I answered this in his journal, the only thing I think I covered that you didn't is advising some sort of professional help to assist him in sorting out his feelings as the flip side to all this is it would be worse to have a wife and kids and suddenly "know" that he ought to really be female and then put them through the tormoil of his transition or the anguish of not transitioning because of them.

[axedarkdemon14]

don't forget v.g that you were only saying what you thought was the right thing to say and that was your view on the topic but of course people can get angry or annoyed at what people say and this is what causes a lot of nice people who want to help and share there views in the forum get pushed away because of people which say they are wrong or say things which they have no right in saying or even guessing about what you think or have been though.

anyway the information that you say to people on the forums has a different effect on different people some may agree while others go off on a moan on what they think is best or in other words they do not agree.

but people should not go and start insulting each other and swearing at each other and saying stuff which they should not be saying which the other people may not like.

i mean why can't everyone talk there problems together, if someone has a problem with someone else talk to them about it and do not go off insulting each other this makes people leave and never want to come back because of how badly people can talk to each other.

[sandy82]

I mostly agree with you Sandy, the reason I didn't post here is because I answered this in his journal, the only thing I think I covered that you didn't is advising some sort of professional help to assist him in sorting out his feelings as the flip side to all this is it would be worse to have a wife and kids and suddenly "know" that he ought to really be female and then put them through the tormoil of his transition or the anguish of not transitioning because of them.

Thanks, gurlbidesign. I agree on the professional counseling--which anyone can benefit from. His journal was another appropriate place to register your views. I did it here for two reasons. First, I wanted to provide quickly a counterweight for Aezrin to what, on its face, was flippant and potentially injurious advice. Second, one never knows when someone else in a situation similar to Aezrin's will read a thread and take to heart some comments that should never be made to someone in a perplexing and lonely condition.

Frankly, the post that I dissected was enough to give me a mental image of a person, nervous and uncertain, standing on the roof edge of a 20-story building while someone below--in jest or not, who knows--screams "Jump! Jump!"

BTW, gurlbidesign, people earn respect in different and often unlikely ways. You may have noticed that when I read posts, I tend to remember their contents--unless someone is waxing eloquent about their new trombone. You made a post in an "Idle Chatter" thread on UFOs, and you made the comment that your mother worked in the aerospace industry in the early 1950s. I have a habit of doing date-related math in my head. I thought to myself that your mother had to be 21 to work in an aircraft plant and that you therefore were probably born in the early 1950s or perhaps slightly later. About 7-10 days later, there was a "Voting" thread asking people for their ages. You said 53, and you shot up in my estimation. First of all, it was almost exactly what fit the circumstances, and you said it in a straightforward, so-what tone of "voice."

Contrast your directness with those who count their ages as twenty-eight, twenty-nine, twenty-ten, twenty-eleven...ooops, I meant sixteen, seventeen... . You get the picture.

You have proved that a serious comment from you is worth careful consideration. Sadly, others have managed entirely the opposite.
.

[gurlbidesign]

I mostly agree with you Sandy, the reason I didn't post here is because I answered this in his journal, the only thing I think I covered that you didn't is advising some sort of professional help to assist him in sorting out his feelings as the flip side to all this is it would be worse to have a wife and kids and suddenly "know" that he ought to really be female and then put them through the tormoil of his transition or the anguish of not transitioning because of them.

Thanks, gurlbidesign. I agree on the professional counseling--which anyone can benefit from. His journal was another appropriate place to register your views. I did it here for two reasons. First, I wanted to provide quickly a counterweight for Aezrin to what, on its face, was flippant and potentially injurious advice. Second, one never knows when someone else in a situation similar to Aezrin's will read a thread and take to heart some comments that should never be made to someone in a perplexing and lonely condition.

Frankly, the post that I dissected was enough to give me a mental image of a person, nervous and uncertain, standing on the roof edge of a 20-story building while someone below--in jest or not, who knows--screams "Jump! Jump!"

BTW, gurlbidesign, people earn respect in different and often unlikely ways. You may have noticed that when I read posts, I tend to remember their contents--unless someone is waxing eloquent about their new trombone. You made a post in an "Idle Chatter" thread on UFOs, and you made the comment that your mother worked in the aerospace industry in the early 1950s. I have a habit of doing date-related math in my head. I thought to myself that your mother had to be 21 to work in an aircraft plant and that you therefore were probably born in the early 1950s or perhaps slightly later. About 7-10 days later, there was a "Voting" thread asking people for their ages. You said 53, and you shot up in my estimation. First of all, it was almost exactly what fit the circumstances, and you said it in a straightforward, so-what tone of "voice."

Contrast your directness with those who count their ages as twenty-eight, twenty-nine, twenty-ten, twenty-eleven...ooops, I meant sixteen, seventeen... . You get the picture.

You have proved that a serious comment from you is worth careful consideration. Sadly, others have managed entirely the opposite.
.

Lol, I was born in 1952, I think my mom was 18 at the time (more or less) she was working in the industry about 3-4 years later to my best recollection, I am not sure exactly when she started now that you mention it. I try not to sweat the stuff I can't do anything about, and my age is one of them. If anything I am proud to have made it this far considering all the dumb stuff I did when I was younger. I guess if you can't be good, you should be lucky.

[makidas]

Actually, I think I'll take this advice. It has been apparent for quite some time that several people of great weight in these forums do not appreciate my presence here. I thought this would be a good place to share my project. Apparently, I was wrong. I wish everyone luck in their future endeavors.

I like your project very much, I think you need to focus on your personality. Don't let the door hit ya on the way out.

[asdf]

Gender expression is more than anatomy and social status. For me, gender is independent of sexuality or identity. I am a female, regardless of my (feminized) male body and masculine name. It is, for me, the only way to be truly happy.

It's a bold move to confront your wife with an issue like this. Even more bold to confront your family and friends. Life as an MTF can be challenging, but if it is essential to your happiness, I think you should pursue it.

[sandy82]

Gender expression is more than anatomy and social status. For me, gender is independent of sexuality or identity. I am a female, regardless of my (feminized) male body and masculine name. It is, for me, the only way to be truly happy.

It's a bold move to confront your wife with an issue like this. Even more bold to confront your family and friends. Life as an MTF can be challenging, but if it is essential to your happiness, I think you should pursue it.

Just curious, and everybody's entitled to his own view. I don't see the connection between "gender expression" and "social status." As far as I can tell, Gore Vidal (and his step-sisters Jackie Onassis and Lee Radziwill) had relatively high social status, while the standing of a real-life Archie Bunker would be low. How do "gender expression" and "social status" fit congruently into that picture?

You mention "happiness" twice in primary colors: the only way to be truly happy and "if it is essential to your happiness... ."

Would I be incorrect in concluding that, for you, your own personal happiness trumps all other responsibilities, interpersonal links, emotions, outreach, interests?

A related question and, again, I have no hidden agenda. Just curiosity. In another thread you announced (I think that's an accurate verb here) that you were thirty or so pounds under weight and that, for you, gaining weight would be a healthy thing. Did you think that your personal weight was going to interest the casual reader or that you would get special sympathy for being thin?

I emphasize that I'm being genuine in asking these questions.

I ask them because your worldview seems quite different from mine. It wouldn't occur to me that a stranger would be interested in my weight, or height, or hair color, or that I would/should/might be granted special consideration under any of those categories. And as for what I consider to be important qualities/activities/duties in this life, my own happiness ranks far below the significance I attach to a number of other people and to issues and concepts larger and more important than myself.

You say twice that you were "bold" to "confront" others with your plans or predilections. If you grew up in an armed family closely connected to the mob, I could agree that you were bold and that it was a confrontation.

But bold confrontations with family and friends? It sounds to me as though you were seeking self-satisfaction...and you found it. At least it sounds as though you did.

I may be wrong. In fact, I hope I am. But it seems to me that you are seeking high drama where none exists.

In case this thread interests any readers, please note that asdf made a plausible statement, and I have asked him some questions based on that statement. I hope people will give asdf an opportunity to answer, if he wants to do so. If he doesn't, then that's his choice. It's a matter of what he decides to do.
.

[asdf]

Just curious, and everybody's entitled to his own view. I don't see the connection between "gender expression" and "social status." As far as I can tell, Gore Vidal (and his step-sisters Jackie Onassis and Lee Radziwill) had relatively high social status, while the standing of a real-life Archie Bunker would be low. How do "gender expression" and "social status" fit congruently into that picture?

My fellow workers see me as male, and therefore I am a male. On my driver's license there's a big "M" in the top-right corner.

Society sees me as a male in every way. That is my social status.

You mention "happiness" twice in primary colors: the only way to be truly happy and "if it is essential to your happiness... ."

Would I be incorrect in concluding that, for you, your own personal happiness trumps all other responsibilities, interpersonal links, emotions, outreach, interests?

I see happiness as a personal experience. My happiness relies on transitioning, while others' happiness may lie elsewhere.

The OP should carefully consider his situation before taking any rash action. I didn't mean to suggest that he should disregard all responsibilities to his family and friends.

A related question and, again, I have no hidden agenda. Just curiosity. In another thread you announced (I think that's an accurate verb here) that you were thirty or so pounds under weight and that, for you, gaining weight would be a healthy thing. Did you think that your personal weight was going to interest the casual reader or that you would get special sympathy for being thin?

I emphasize that I'm being genuine in asking these questions.

I ask them because your worldview seems quite different from mine. It wouldn't occur to me that a stranger would be interested in my weight, or height, or hair color, or that I would/should/might be granted special consideration under any of those categories. And as for what I consider to be important qualities/activities/duties in this life, my own happiness ranks far below the significance I attach to a number of other people and to issues and concepts larger and more important than myself.

I figured that underweight people should be mentioned. This site caters to overweight people with "weight loss" files. Why, then, should it not provide files for those seeking weight gain?

No, I didn't intend to offend anyone or garner attention. My post was intended to persuade EMG and support the OP (he wanted a weight gain file).

You say twice that you were "bold" to "confront" others with your plans or predilections. If you grew up in an armed family closely connected to the mob, I could agree that you were bold and that it was a confrontation.

But bold confrontations with family and friends? It sounds to me as though you were seeking self-satisfaction...and you found it. At least it sounds as though you did.

I may be wrong. In fact, I hope I am. But it seems to me that you are seeking high drama where none exists.

"Coming out" to family and friends can often be dramatic. It has resulted in divorces. In my case, it earned me quite a few beatings.

Spouses and especially families (of a religious persuasion) can seem very hostile and daunting. Confronting my parents was one of the most terrifying things that I have ever done. I would call it a bold move.

In case this thread interests any readers, please note that asdf made a plausible statement, and I have asked him some questions based on that statement. I hope people will give asdf an opportunity to answer, if he wants to do so. If he doesn't, then that's his choice. It's a matter of what he decides to do.
.

I don't mind a debate, but let's not go too far off-topic.

[sandy82]

Many thanks, asdf, for an interesting answer. I sense that you see some words and phrases as having meanings and importance different from those to which I am accustomed. Vance Packard wrote an interesting book in the late 1950s which is still available in libraries. It now amounts to commentary, often intentionally humorous. Called "The Status Seekers." In that context, "social status" relates to your neighborhood, how much education and where, your clubs, your church. Apparently you use the phrase in a more sociological way.

Also, my point on personal happiness had little to do with how one defines personal happiness. It concerned the question of when one chooses to defer or forego one's own happiness, however defined, because other values (the happiness of others, one's duty in certain situations, etc.) are deemed more important.

My last comment really didn't bear on debate. I see no need for a debate. My purpose was to deter a small handful of readers (whose enthusiasm outweighs comprehension) from jumping the queue.