What is deep?

[GrowinGirlie]

Hello, I find that I may yet to have reached a true state of trance, though
I do reach a state of immense relaxation, & I believe it may be a trouble grasping, What is deep? I can be very analytical & I am a very detail oriented type of person, without enough detail things fall short which really makes it hard to keep interested let alone focused on the files. I have yet to hear in any file a true definition or detailed feeling to going deeper, I try to visualize quick sand or water or even sinking into a dark dimension through leaving my body through my bed, but to no avail. When I am uncertain on things I have a hard time committing to one without getting distracted with, "maybe the other way", keeping me from focusing on the way I am currently doing whatever I may be doing, in this instance trying to trance. I rely on experience significantly which helps when I receive the necessary detail to firmly grasp a concept. It was only a few months before I started with hypnosis that I was thinking how ridiculous it was & had a firm mindset that I was beyond it with a foolish grandiose thinking on the control I govern over my own mind. Now due to these things I find I am probably making things far harder than they are, but I cannot help it so I ask again, What is deep?

Also, I have listened excessively to subliminals & even got a program for making them, though I have seen no sign of them working no matter the simplicity of the subliminal.

& if anybody has any advice otherwise that they believe would help me, I would greatly appreciate it!

[MN_FriendlyGuy]

Thanks for the thoughtful question you posted. I hope you'll find this response friendly, helpful and equally thoughtful.

Let's start with subliminals - no sign of 'em working
As opinion, I believe subliminals are somewhat useful as a tool for selling primary satisfiers. Beyond that, I believe effectiveness studies have shown results are limited to the actions someone had already planned to perform.

I'm aware many folks get surprising and amazing results from subliminal recordings. I'm sure as hell not going to dispute someone's personal experience. But for anyone who is analytical and detail oriented, I recommend they do some research before making a decision.

Next - What is Deep?
Most of your life is unconsciously determined.

The decisions you make tomorrow will be guided by every experience you've ever had; including forgotten experiences.

If you want to change choices, habits and behavior, then an "inspiration" moment is necessary. Emphasis: as you read the examples that follow, think about the *feeling* of inspiration.


- Some people find inspiration in the privacy of their thoughts. They have a [URL=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eureka_effect]Eureka![/URL] experience, like Archimedes did as he took his bath. Have you ever felt that kind of Aha! moment?

- Some people find inspiration through the structure of religion, meditation, or mysticism. Many folks tell how it feels to let their spirit soar.

- Some people find inspiration through emotion or desire... guided by the "pleasure principle" that Freud called the [URL=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id,_ego_and_super-ego]ID[/URL]. The craving for pleasure can lead a man to [URL=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subspace_%28BDSM%29]interesting extremes.[/URL]

To experience deep trance, simply realize where YOU find inspiration. Then, follow that framework and trust yourself... Trust the determinations of your unconscious mind.

The stories we hypnotists tell...
- sand sprinkling down
- ocean waves on a warm, sunny afternoon
- resting comfortably in a hammock - swinging gently back and forth

Those stories are simply a path. They're a path for thinking with the [URL=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lateralization_of_brain_function]less-dominant hemisphere of the brain[/URL] - finding inspiration there. And, it's unimportant whether your inspiration is experienced as craving & desire, experienced mystically & ethereally, or experienced in a flash of enlightenment.

Want to go deeper? Focus on the craving; or focus on soaring exhilaration; or focus on awareness that the problem *can* be solved.

Thanks again for making your first posting an especially thoughtful one.

[GrowinGirlie]

I want to thank you for your response, it has given me a great boost forward on my path!
On the subject of subliminals, I will try to delve deeper into research on them, because now that I think back I have been affected to a degree by some, but eventually the effect fades & I can't reach the place I was at, they don't work anymore (though the original plan was for them not to work, so perhaps going from fighting to accepting something changed the quality of effectiveness).

I follow you well, but to a point, I am trying to fully grasp:

To experience deep trance, simply realize where YOU find inspiration. Then, follow that framework and trust yourself... Trust the determinations of your unconscious mind.

What is it you mean here exactly? I find inspiration from all three described so how do any of them give way to deep trance? Perhaps are you equating the feeling of inspiration to the feeling with trance & how do I follow the framework? What do you mean for me to trust the determinations?

Also, as for:

Want to go deeper? Focus on the craving; or focus on soaring exhilaration; or focus on awareness that the problem *can* be solved.

How do I utilize my inspirations to go deeper? When you say focus on the craving I feel my craving for going into trance take root, but then I hear an echo of files where the hypnotist states not to think about the quality & such so I can't envision a way to implement them both.
As per exhilaration I have tried different ways to keep kind of a high through some files with descriptive scenes such as you described as being paths, I have even implemented getting high on weed in hopes of an improvement & though it boosts my general relaxation, my mind still tends to meander enough from everything.

I sometimes ponder if I have ADD, at least to a degree because an elementary teacher of mine told my mother that she thought I did, but my mother never pursued it after basically telling the teacher "f you" for even suggesting it. I think it may be true at times because if I lose interest I can very easily zone out on the next thought or break off on a random tangent, which I apologize if my posts seem jumbled & not well organized as I'd like, but other times I think it may just be that I have an overestimated understanding of just how strong my focus should be. Regardless I tried files said to work for analytical people & for people with ADD to no avail as well.

I foresee that once I have my eureka moment with trance it will probably only help to promote the trance.

[uw_onsterfelijk]

"Deep" to me was when, I finally got to the point where I was listening to an induction and... next thing I know... thirty minutes later, I was becoming self aware again... at the wakeup count!!! Almost complete amnesia.

Also, if you listen to a file that takes you "deep" and "leaves" you there(no wakeup count), you will feel groggy as hell. If you haven't actually fallen asleep.

A tip, find a file that you like and "agree" with, DO NOT think of it as someone "controlling" you but more akin to someone "guiding" you... to a place you long to go. Which, since hypnosis feels amazing, that's true.

Tip 2, maybe try this... listen to each word "individually", try to ease your mind from "completing" the hypnotist sentences. I have had that work with a few I have tranced.

Also, listening to random "generic" files on a website can be great, but also does not even compare to when you know and have a rapport with an actual hypnotist. I have a very Dominant woman who I trance over gmail, at first she thought she'd never like hypnosis, never give up "control", but thing is, I DON'T control her... I guide her. And she LOVES it.

All the best, hope you go "deep" soon,
- uw_

[GrowinGirlie]

I have had a few experiences where was listening to the induction & then suddenly I am "conscious" again, but I never seem to awaken at the awakener. I typically listen before I plan to sleep, & in bed, so perhaps just dozing off it would seem from what I have gathered from other topics in the forum.

I have found several files that I've found to be agreeable to my way of thinking & though they may be enjoyable at first I become easily bored with repetition, making listening feel more like a chore at times when I have to force myself to listen.

I have been trying to relieve my mind from completing sentences when re-listening & though difficult at times have made great progress in listening more than trying to participate. For some reason I find it foreign how you say listen to each word individually, maybe because it sounds like what I did at first, I would kind of let each word echo in my mind by repeating each word after the hypnotist, is this what you mean?

Financially I cannot afford to see an actual hypnotist at the moment, though I would love to as for how much I believe that it would help significantly.

From research I have found that I have actually reached trance many times before; watching TV, reading a good book, or sometimes just zoning out when my mind strays off to focus intently on a thought. I think I may have even semi-hypnotized myself into being a snail for a few seconds before, till somebody broke my concentration though I am unsure on this one.

I feel now as though I am on the very brink of my eureka moment & reaching my goal, I can't wait to see how things go tonight.

Thank you very much, I hope to go "deep" very soon, especially with the help I am receiving which I really appreciate as I hope to make some files myself soon.

[uw_onsterfelijk]

You have 7 paragraphs, I'll reply in order.

1)It is typically thought that listening in bed and right at sleepy time is not good. Hypnosis is not sleep, actually the opposite. A heightened state of awareness that allows your conscious, thinking mind to "rest". At least that's how I understand it. Similar to how you can "daydream" yourself into being a snail.

2)If you are "forcing" yourself to trance, you are doing it wrong, per se ;) Or, even though a file is agreeable, it's still not "right" for you if you find yourself drudging through it. It's tough to find that perfect file. The ones that are effortless to trance to, I usually have PAID for those. But more importantly, the production quality of a hypnotist from voice, material and delivery are all important aspects that allow you to easily go "deep". Versus becoming bored.

3)I was just giving you a suggestion that helps some I have hypnotized. Also, don't echo the words, listen, hear it, let it go... next word. But if your brain doesn't work like that then simply disregard my suggestion.

4)The people I trance do not pay me... it's an internet "friendship" type thing that progresses to trance sessions. And yes, having a hypnotist who knows you a little makes a HUGE difference.

5)Your research is correct, to a point. It's a good indication you can achieve trance, so build from there with positive thinking and desires.

6)Good luck, hope it happens. As a great trance can feel like the most amazing thing on earth.

You're welcome, and happy trancing,
- uw_

[GrowinGirlie]

Hi I've been a bit busier than usual lately, but have managed to do a little more research on trance & hypnosis.

1) I am not going to try to trance in bed for a while until I am having frequent success entering trance.

2)Would it be possible if, I was to write & record a file for myself, to guide myself into trance? I have tried self hypnosis before with a descending staircase type induction, but this was before I found mp3s of hypnosis so it was all mental, but was still uninteresting. So I am saying if I was to write my own file that I can become more engrossed in, could it work better?

3)Thank you for the suggestion, but it still troubles me to grasp I'm afraid.

4) I found a website, thanks to MN_FriendlyGuy's journal links, where I was on chat with some hypnotists & they gave me very good advice. I think I might, which probably means I do, have a sense of distrust when listening & therefore my mind may have made a bit of a shield. I think I originally didn't have it, but after the hypnosis videos I tried that I was going into with plans to rebel, when I made the realization that they were working when I never really wanted them too, my mind went into lockdown against suggestion. All that & I have a mild case of paranoia.

5) The hypnotists I chatted with brought it up too & said that I am very capable, but my distrust & also skepticism mixed with my analytical thinking are the main things we talked about as making me over complicate everything.

6)I have realized that I have been reaching light trance but my complexing keeps me from realizing until I am done, so I never let go & keep in constant vigil mode.

Last note. I intend to look into volunteering as a subject for students at a hypnosis school, in hopes that maybe the teacher will also work with the subjects.

[MN_FriendlyGuy]

Congratulations on the progress, GrowinGirlie.

Your postings have convinced me to re-post an mp3 here on WMM.

[URL=http://www.warpmymind.com/Files/6504/Shore-of-Relaxation.php]Shore of Relaxation[/URL] invites the listener to relax... to rediscover the enjoyable feeling that comes from simply relaxing.

Be as vigilant as you like. Be skeptical and analytical. In fact, I insist on it!
I believe it will do you good to discover the pleasure of setting aside expectations.

When someone takes a break from expectations and responsibilities, it's a gift they give themselves. And that's true regardless of whether they're going to listen to the Shore of Relaxation mp3.

When someone analyzes the enjoyable feeling that comes from simply relaxing, then maybe they also understand the true definition and feeling of going deeper.

[GrowinGirlie]

Thank you very much for re-posting Shore of Relaxation! It proved to me that I have been reaching trance, but on such a light note that I couldn't tell without experiencing going deeper. The first listen I was only able to get through nine minutes before being interrupted, but just those nine were wonderful. The second time took me a little bit further than usual maybe, but the file was the most enjoyable file yet & I found a true desire to listen again, which I had yet to feel after a file. So after my third listen earlier today I went much deeper, now I just need to work on the quieting of my conscious mind & I believe I can really succeed with trance now too!

I had my eureka moment of what it all felt like on my third listen which really helped take me that extra step, I even went deeper on another file I hardly even light tranced to.

So thank you again MN_FriendlyGuy!

& thank you for your help uw_onsterfelijk, I finally was able to listen to each word individually which gave me another step deeper!

[uw_onsterfelijk]

Glad to hear you are seeing some results, as hypnosis can be so very wonderful in your everyday life :D

Happy trancing,
- uw_