How Many Here Believe in Global Warming?

[sandy82]

Part II - NWC

Sandy, you never fail to entertain. Be well, my friend... :wink:

I hope so. The entertainment becomes more varied as time passes.

Be honest, morrcomm.

[morrcomm]

Part II - NWC

Sandy, you never fail to entertain. Be well, my friend... :wink:

I hope so. The entertainment becomes more varied as time passes.

Be honest, morrcomm.

Honestly, I'm glad I quoted your entire original Part II post last time. Otherwise, people might have thought I was making some dismissive comment about the in-depth and rather interesting post that's now in its place, instead of my saying how much I enjoyed seeing the all-purpose "NWC" making another appearance!

I'll bite, too. Which meaning did NWC have this time?

[GAYTTO]

GAYTTO, this has been a thoroughly enjoyable exchange. I hope that you won't think poorly of the Bostonian. He was a culture-bearer, expressing the mainstream spirit of the immediate times in which he spoke.

The influences between languages is a very interresting post that sould need to be developped. But I don't know if it's here the right place. I may need also a lot of time to do so, to choose the right word, to think how to build the sentence, to verify my spelling...

Furthermore, it's 5.30 a.m. over here. I'm sitting in front of my screen with my coffee and ciggies and I'm not fully awake (no, I'm not in a deep trance !). So at this time, I don't see the difference between some words.

For instance; I was reading the end of your post and I told to myself : "What country Sindy is talking about ?" I didn't know where that Bostonian came from : Bostonia ?? Where is it ? Between Latvia and Estonia ?? Then

:idea: I remembered that Boston is much far away than Latvia. So I'll come back later when my head is clear.

[makidas]

Coffee and smokes! What else ya need, eh? That's pretty funny the Bostonian thing. I know I for one am looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

[sandy82]

GAYTTO, being awake at 5:30 am is cruel and unusual punishment! I'm glad you have the coffee and cigarettes. By the way, coffee prices here are expected to go up. Reason: most South American coffee enters the U.S. through.....New Orleans.

I agree with you. The similarities and differences among languages--and the ways they affect cultures, and the ways cultures affect them--are very interesting topics. But not at 5:30 am!

I had never thought about Bostonia as a place. It's a great notion. It reminds me of a true story that repeats itself with some frequency. Someone named Smith in Albuquerque or Santa Fe, New Mexico, will write a letter to Washington about his Social Security benefits. He will often receive a reply that says:

"Dear Mr. Smith,

"It is our usual policy not to write letters to foreign countries, but since you sound like an American, here is the information you requested." :)

C'est vrai. Aucun badinage ici!
No joke. It's true.

[GAYTTO]

GAYTTO, being awake at 5:30 am is cruel and unusual punishment! I'm glad you have the coffee and cigarettes. By the way, coffee prices here are expected to go up. Reason: most South American coffee enters the U.S. through.....New Orleans.

One of my cats (yeah right, my favourite pussy :roll: ) finds it's funny to wake me up at that time. So why not, I was early at the office, that's all.

You talking about coffee shipped through Mississipi I presume. I've heard that the delta was clear about 65% of its capacity. I hope I'll able to find some affordable coffee tomorrow morning !

Oh, by the way the 20's Marlboro pack is sold more or less 3,35 USD over here. So you get an idea how addicted I am.

And for the oil addicted ones : gasoline is sold 4,56 USD/gallion in Belgium, if I am right . Gee! why don't you use the metric system, for Christ sake :twisted: It took me some time to make that fucking conversion !!!

[sandy82]

One of my cats (yeah right, my favourite pussy :roll: ) finds it's funny to wake me up at that time. So why not, I was early at the office, that's all.

You talking about coffee shipped through Mississipi I presume. I've heard that the delta was clear about 65% of its capacity. I hope I'll able to find some affordable coffee tomorrow morning !

Oh, by the way the 20's Marlboro pack is sold more or less 3,35 USD over here. So you get an idea how addicted I am.

And for the oil addicted ones : gasoline is sold 4,56 USD/gallion in Belgium, if I am right . Gee! why don't you use the metric system, for Christ sake :twisted: It took me some time to make that fucking conversion !!!

The US Government had a program aimed at gradually introducing kilometers and kph on highway signs. Then a poll was taken. About 90 percent of the public opposed the metric system. A number like 90 leaves only one of a congressman's fingers bent over, as it were. The gradual introduction program has become verrrrrry gradual.

Some things have been metricized, and people scarcely notice. Liquor is now sold principally by the liter, 0.75 liter, and 1.75 liters. Before, it was quarts and four-fifths of a quart--or one-fifth of a gallon. Virtually all packaged food in grocery stores is labeled under both systems: kilos and grams, pounds and ounces.

Actually, the price of gasoline in Belgium seems fairly reasonable by European standards. From what I've seen recently, the price per gallon in Britain and France is about $7.00 per gallon. That's American gallons. Not the old British Imperial gallons.

Don't tell the Bushies! The earth seems cooler in Celsius. :wink: When it's 95 degrees Fahrenheit, it's only 35 degrees Celsius.
.

[makidas]

Marlboros here in America, (at least where I live), are $5.25 a pack (USD).

[GAYTTO]

Don't tell the Bushies! The earth seems cooler in Celsius. :wink: When it's 95 degrees Fahrenheit, it's only 35 degrees Celsius.
.

35° Celsius ! Is that what you're calling cooler ? :wink:

[sandy82]

Hell, no. :wink: 35 degrees sounds cooler to a Fahrenheit-thinker. It was 95/35 several days last week in New Orleans, though.

[Dog]

Quick note to all:
Kyoto Protocol was rejected by the senate on a massive basis [both parties voted NO] wee lbefor 2000. Those who are really bad a Math should not try to use statistics, the AVERAGE temperature is actually a Sample Average and not an absolute value, surface temperatures are subject to inflated values due to location of collection [airport aprons and roof tops above black tar pavements] actual radiosonde and satellite data contradict models which are pure theory in need of constant testing. The natural cycles of sunspots [high end just ending] cause fluctuations in temp.
It serves no good purpose to cripple the dominant economy on the planet, since once the demand for goods in the US slackens the economies of the rest of the nations will collapse even more [ see Great Depression and Hawley Smoot Tariff]
Should we all be worried? No! Should we all conserve? Yes! But under no circumstances should we ever trade freedom for safety. Every weatherman is inaccurate in some degree, all climatologist are weathermen, ergo all climatologist are inaccurate in some degree.
Pray for peace, but keep your firearm of choice loaded and at hand.

[sandy82]

Quick note to all:
Kyoto Protocol was rejected by the senate on a massive basis [both parties voted NO] wee lbefor 2000. Those who are really bad a Math should not try to use statistics, the AVERAGE temperature is actually a Sample Average and not an absolute value, surface temperatures are subject to inflated values due to location of collection [airport aprons and roof tops above black tar pavements] actual radiosonde and satellite data contradict models which are pure theory in need of constant testing. The natural cycles of sunspots [high end just ending] cause fluctuations in temp.
It serves no good purpose to cripple the dominant economy on the planet, since once the demand for goods in the US slackens the economies of the rest of the nations will collapse even more [ see Great Depression and Hawley Smoot Tariff]
Should we all be worried? No! Should we all conserve? Yes! But under no circumstances should we ever trade freedom for safety. Every weatherman is inaccurate in some degree, all climatologist are weathermen, ergo all climatologist are inaccurate in some degree.
Pray for peace, but keep your firearm of choice loaded and at hand.

Interesting post, with good points. Your observations on placement of thermometers' affecting the readings reminds me of the time I told the school nurse I had a headache. She put the thermometer under my tongue and left the room. I wanted a goooood reading so I put the thermometer tip on a light bulb. The nurse soon looked very unhappy and asked me how I got a temperature of 108 F / 42 C. With thermometers as with some other items, placement is everything.

Kyoto may have been defeated a number of times. There may be a rule about how many times a bill/proposal can be brought up in any one term or session. But bills can be reintroduced over and over, through the years. I bet Kyoto was defeated at some stage, in some fashion; and it should have been. But it is still a live issue for many around the world, and it will probably remain so.

"Those who are really bad a Math should not try to use statistics... ." I went back and looked for someone who was identifiably bad at math, and I didn't find anyone.

"It serves no good purpose to cripple the dominant economy on the planet, since once the demand for goods in the US slackens the economies of the rest of the nations will collapse even more ... ."

Good black-letter economics and sound history. Right on target for Hawley-Smoot/Smoot-Hawley, 70-odd years ago.

What are your thoughts on the changes in the American economy? Conumer spending used to account, even in recent years, for two-thirds of the demand in the domestic economy. It's now up to 76 percent. Or, turning it around, look at the relative decline in business spending in the economy. The average individual savings rate is down to 0.0 percent. I think I'm right on this: about three-quarters of American households, excluding principal residence, have a net worth of less than $25,000. Now that there are no limits on credit card interest, rates of 22 percent are not uncommon. How much is the American consumer supposed to carry...for the benefit of others? Maybe it's time for the EU, with more people than we have, to be the engine of consumer demand. Let them go into hock to the Mainland Chinese. We will be grateful for the American products that they and their governments purchase. I think Gerhard Schroeder would look super in a stretch black Cadillac limousine. Just as black and shiny as his dyed hair.

How long will we remain the dominant economy on the planet?

I've been listening to CurseLucidPrognostications and I can foresee a day when billboards serve notice at every major port of entry.

"Amber waves!
Purple Mountains!
Country for Lease.
Will remodel to suit.
For details contact owner,
Hu Jintao, Esq."

I share your view that we should never trade freedom for security. That's one point on which I am considerably encouraged. I have been concerned that with all the feverish activity for searches and arrests without warrant, tapping of phones without a judge's approval, talk about National ID cards with retina data (estimated in the UK to cost 300 pounds each)....I've been concerned that with all this focused energy and determination, we were losing significant chunks of our freedom.

Some clouds have silver linings. That's why, in a back-handed sort of way, we can look at New Orleans as a tremendously encouraging development.

For four years we've been told about all the security and communications improvements. But when the time came to see it all in action, we found that we still had our freedoms.

Despite all the talk, it appears that the feds have done little or nothing at all.

One example, which does not prove the rule. The Mayor of Baltimore was on television last night, ecstatic because (through local, voluntary cooperation) the Baltimore City police can now use their handhelds to talk to the Baltimore County police. A milestone of home-grown common sense. The feds had nothing to do with it. Soon, the Maryland State Police will be able to talk with their counterparts in Pennsylvania.

Does make me wonder where all the money went.

Dog, do you know some good mathematicians who can help us figure out those totals?

Seriously, you raise some excellent points, and from a perspective that I haven't seen in such detail. You know how to cut through a lot of the bull. And that takes a diamond-toothed chain saw these days. I bet you'll join me on this: I wish we had the luxury of focusing on Kyoto at the moment, but we don't. We've got several wars, natural disasters in New Orleans and Washington (the ones in Washington have names), more airline bankruptcies, etc., etc. We've even got conflicts between the News and the commercials. The News says that an aging population could bankrupt the country. The commercials say to take Lipitor and live to be 110.

I do part with you on one point. I don't Pray for Peace. What would happen to Halliburton stock?

I Pray for Honesty and Competence. I suspect we'll see Peace first.
.

[Dog]

As to those bad at math, pick a gaping mouth on TV and from Hollywood and you have a poor student waving his or her hand. [problems are not solved by sitting down and obstructing they are solved by work]

The hurricane ended, the flooding is receeding, but the foolishness following the levee breach was appalling. The Governor of Louisiana blocked the Federal response, the Mayor of New Orleans failed to use available resources, and when the wind is still over fifty knots the number of pilots that fly is close to if not equal to zero. We saw the content of the character of the citizens of New Orleans, fortunately for the nation most of them had resourcefulness enough to suvive and will after much trouble thrive. The small number of thugs will be rounded up in due time.

Washington denizens have also shown their character, the plain matter of fact is the obstuctionism of the Democratic Party and the constant need to placate all Congress members with pork barrel spending has been the ruin of the republic. The Port of New Orleans is a national asset and so levees to keep it open are vital, the diversion of the monies from the critcal upgrades was done at the local Louisiana level {look up corrupt politician and you will see : Reduntant phrase: see Louisiana}

Honesty is an absolute one may be deemed honest only if they
NEVER lie. That said there are NO[b][i] honest people [at some point everyone lies]. That said if the person can be fact checked the statement may be believed [trust but verify].

Sorry to ramble on but the reply you gave was a nice bone to chew, and dogs will chew bones.

[missypuss]

Can I just say that Im missing Morcomms contribution to the mix already..
The older you get the more obvious it seems that our respective countries are doing little if nigh all for the citizens of our respective countries except bleeding us dry with taxes and charges for working..
And spending our pensions ..
And then cos we will eventually be such an aging population ..
Beginning to train children from the day they start school about how important it is to work and pay taxes to your government cos when you are old no doubt you will request your governments help with healthcare/respite/burial..
Mean while lets legalise euthanasia ..
Ease the policy in gently while kyoto and hurricanes and wars are happening..
That way we can kill off our decrepid and elderly poorer citizens when the time comes so they dont become a burden on the state..
Hey I wonder if thats what Katrina was about ..
Get rid of a multitude of poor and elderly non contributers rather quickly??

[sandy82]

Well, I'm happy to hear from you, Missypuss! And I am equally happy to see the return of the Missypuss writing style that we know and favor. I agree with a number of your sentiments below. I hesitate on some of the specifics, however. The reason is that when someone does something really dim, there are usually two choices: Is the person unnoticing or is the person acting intentionally?

My tendency is to believe the latter, but after some of the things we've seen, I wonder whether anyone can be so malicious as that. Much more likely that they live up to that good bumper sticker:

"Somewhere, a village is missing its idiot."

You're right. The governments are bleeding people dry. They tell you that you're patriotic...while Richard Branson opens another account in Jersey or the Cayman Islands.

As to euthanasia, no formal policy either in the US or in the UK. Not yet. Perhaps, never. Here, the costs will become so high that many won't be able to go to hospital. There, in the UK, the waiting list for a necessary operation will be scheduled so far into the future that the ill person will die of other causes in the meanwhile.

That's not euthanasia! That's called the "rationing of scarce medical resources." 8O

As for intentionally killing the poor and elderly in New Orleans...that's beyond the pale. It is interesting to note, however, the difference in treatment between a small, family-run nursing home and a large, corporate-owned hospital. About 34 people died in the nursing home, and the husband and wife owners were charged with manslaughter and put in jail. About 45 died in the hospital. When the news media reported the hospital deaths, private helicopters landed on the roof of the hospital, guys got off and nailed all the doors and windows shut on the ground floor. The bodies were put on the private helicopters and flown away. Then the troops surrounded the hospital. No-one in or out...meaning no reporters with cameras.

The hospital is owned by the Tenet Corporation of Dallas, Texas. Died? Who died?

The contrast between those two situatons is what you are likely to see.

My prediction about New Orleans. Some, but by no means all, of the flooded residential areas will be rebuilt. Varying reasons. One will be the unspoken preference of the Establishment that the areas not be rebuilt. Another reason will be that the flooded houses were affordable because they were older and depreciated. A brand-new replacement will be too expensive for the prior tenants. Unless the federal government underwrites the rents...if the proposal isn't lost...if non-recipients don't complain.....if young professionals don't grab the houses/flats first...if...if...if.

Missypuss, I'd be interested in your views on the above. See anything you disagree with?

The older you get the more obvious it seems that our respective countries are doing little if nigh all for the citizens of our respective countries except bleeding us dry with taxes and charges for working..
And spending our pensions ..
And then cos we will eventually be such an aging population ..
Beginning to train children from the day they start school about how important it is to work and pay taxes to your government cos when you are old no doubt you will request your governments help with healthcare/respite/burial..
Mean while lets legalise euthanasia ..
Ease the policy in gently while kyoto and hurricanes and wars are happening..
That way we can kill off our decrepid and elderly poorer citizens when the time comes so they dont become a burden on the state..
Hey I wonder if thats what Katrina was about ..
Get rid of a multitude of poor and elderly non contributers rather quickly??

[missypuss]

Sorry guys ..
Re read that whole statement (and) for euthanasia..
Read "assisted suicide"...........................................
Just being tried to be passed in our parliament................
As we speak...

[sandy82]

No need to apologize to me or anyone else. That's your Parliament. Your New Labour. And your Tony.

We have enough problems of our own.

I will go back to your earlier post and see whether I can figure out what the rest of your language below means.

I hope you're feeling okay.

I don't see any specific disagreements below, by the way. I assume there weren't any.

Sorry guys ..
Re read that whole statement (and) for euthanasia..
Read "assisted suicide"...........................................
Just being tried to be passed in our parliament................
As we speak...

[missypuss]

Have PMd you to try to make it a little bit clearer Sandy..
Hope I made sense? :wink:

[morrcomm]

Can I just say that Im missing Morcomms contribution to the mix already..

You say the nicest things, missypuss... :wink:

Hopefully, I can get back into the mix here on a regular basis sometime soon after New Year's, if all goes well!

[sandy82]

Hopefully, I can get back into the mix here on a regular basis sometime soon after New Year's, if all goes well!

Morrcomm, I didn't realize you would be away until after New Year's, although I did know you have a rather tall order between now and then--in fact, probably later than that.

Missypuss had asked on your behalf what "NWC" meant earlier in this thread. My reply--"Not Without Consultation--was an accurate one. I consulted on the reply and other related matters, both on site and off. Some of the old-timers seem to remember you.

A large number of us look forward to your eventual return.

Be honest, morrcomm. :wink:


Scripta manent.

[sandy82]

Have PMd you to try to make it a little bit clearer Sandy..
Hope I made sense? :wink:

Many thanks! Very clear reply. :) Your concerns have special significance when the national government owns hospitals, pays doctors' salaries, and sends out those cheques.

Here, the federal government owns only military and veterans' hospitals. Fortunately, the interests you mentioned don't quite coincide. But there's always ample reason for concern...everywhere.

[morrcomm]

Hopefully, I can get back into the mix here on a regular basis sometime soon after New Year's, if all goes well!

Morrcomm, I didn't realize you would be away until after New Year's, although I did know you have a rather tall order between now and then--in fact, probably later than that.

Not away completely. Just not here on a regular basis, as I wrote. I'll still be popping in from time to time.

I can't say I understand where your comment about "probably later than that" comes from, though. We're on a rather firm deadline for the tall order you mention. (Do you know something about this project I'm on that I don't?)

Missypuss had asked on your behalf what "NWC" meant earlier in this thread. My reply--"Not Without Consultation--was an accurate one. I consulted on the reply and other related matters, both on site and off. Some of the old-timers seem to remember you.

This could almost make me think that my opinion actually matters to you, sandy, or that you spend far too much time worrying about me. :wink:

Scripta manent.

If you still keep that personal back-up of all the posts on this site that you've mentioned, then I'm sure they do!

[hailtheprinceofdarkness]

Did you know that there are scientists who DO NOT believe there is any Global Warming happening on this planet? This subject is generally accepted as a proven theory, but it really IS NOT conclusively proven. Part of the reason we are handed this theory as if it were a proven fact is that the news media thinks it is better for their ratings to scare people. They're afraid that good news will make us get bored and change the channel. But if they tell us something scary, maybe we will stay tuned to their program long enough to see all the commercials.

OUR C+ PRESIDENT INCLUDED!

[Cwolf_FA]

That's one of the worse things about the world today. Everything suddenly becomes political. Take global warming. Liberals say how it's happening and warn to be careful about the environment. In response conservatives get angry, demand how our great nations could possibly be causing damage to the world, and then proceed to deny that anything is even happening. Global warming is fact. There's substantial evidence and the scientist's working to disprove it are either politically minded or just stubborn. In my opinion it is because of our actions, but it may be that it's because of something else. Still people shouldn't need an excuse like that to take better care of the world we live in.

PS if you're gonna talk about fear related news spend 10 minutes watching FOX. It's almost guaranteed that you'll find some scary stuff. And the only way to keep the scary stuff from happening is to stick with the current government.

[tnot]

i personally dont believe in global warming but to be honest it dosent really matter much because there so much else wrong with the environment that were screwed either way

[kinkybc]

thats my question. Why do we ask if there is global warming? is the basic question whether or not carbon dioxide is really a greenhouse gas? After all, if that's not good science, then the rest is questionable.

[Calimore]

While I believe today is Tuesday here, I know that Jesus led me to Enlightenment. Others may take another course to enlightenment, but that is what has worked for me.

Likewise, while I believe global warming may be a valid theory, I know we are experiencing climate change. It's happened many times, sometimes resulting in what is called "ice ages" and will continue to happen whether man contributes to the process or not.

So, I must abstain from voting as your question is, in itself, invalid. Or so I believe.

Cheers!

[DrFier]

"From now on, when people ask me 'Do you believe in global warming?' I'm simply going to respond with 'Do you believe in gravity'" -Neil Tyson (American physicist)

There are people who point out scientists are divided on the issues. Last I heard that divide was 12,378 believe it does exist and 3 do not.

[Glasnerven]

I'm not at all surprised to see that climate change denial and Christian belief go hand in hand. Of course, it's only one data point, but it would be very interesting to see just how closely those two things track.