The Problem of other minds

by **SubmissMe** » November 15th, 2005, 4:55 pm

How do we know that other minds exist? How do we know the people around us think and feel in the same way we do?

Does anyone believe that they are the only mind and everyone else doesn't exist?

by **missypuss** » November 16th, 2005, 4:51 am

Sometimes when I talk to people on messenger I feel like Im talking to different versions of the same person.... does this help??

by **SubmissMe** » November 16th, 2005, 8:26 am

It depends. Do you think that you are the only person on msn? And everyone you talk to is created by you in your mind for entertainment?

by **missypuss** » November 16th, 2005, 12:10 pm

No mainly it feels as if some bastards hacked my computer and is having his own pre pubescent answer to fun actually... :twisted:

by **SubmissMe** » November 16th, 2005, 3:56 pm

fair enough then. This topic was meant to go more along the lines of solipsism.....

by **Mallic** » November 16th, 2005, 10:06 pm

missypuss wrote:No mainly it feels as if some bastards hacked my computer and is having his own pre pubescent answer to fun actually... :twisted:

Yeah, usually their name is 'Pauly' or something......

sirously, other mind are not just figments of your (or someones elses) imagination, the are actual minds, but it doesn't seem like that cause we don't think in the same way

by **gurlbidesign** » November 17th, 2005, 4:41 am

Sometimes everyone else is gone, but I am always here.

Does that help?

by **Mallic** » November 17th, 2005, 4:50 am

No, not really.... BTW, its strange discussing whether other minds exsist on a internet forum...

by **SubmissMe** » November 17th, 2005, 9:29 am

Why yes, that's why I started it. Basically, we can never PROVE other minds exist but we can only prove our own existance. Is there any way we can be sure others exist? Maybe we are all created inside your mind so you won't be bored............

by **missypuss** » November 17th, 2005, 9:34 am

Or is it just a case of "if I dont mind-you dont matter" ! :wink:

by **SubmissMe** » November 17th, 2005, 3:51 pm

is anybody round here a philosopher?

by **Primus** » November 17th, 2005, 5:00 pm

Philosphy you want? well consider this take on life

We are all in actuallity a hive mind. Years ago before barriers were truly created we could tap into this free flowing power to build massive monuments that have withstood the tests of time (Pyramids and Stone Henge) however with the great disturbences in the force (blowing up of Atlantis and such) we have errected barriers around ourselves to insulate us from said pain.
So in actuality when you see a telepath or a psychokinetisist all they are doing is lowering thier own barriers enough to peek out into this power that we have chosen to ignore and tap into other people's conduits. So in truly then there are not other minds out there for we are all a single mind who has fractured itself into billions of parts to avoid the consiquences of the whole.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it

by **missypuss** » November 18th, 2005, 4:37 am

I like your story Primus and I think I kind of want to believe that its true. We used to be all part of a collective hive, maybe some of the voices in the collective got a little frustrated about having to sing from the same story book so to speak and decided to branch out and find out what their own minds were capable of...

by **Primus** » November 18th, 2005, 4:48 am

who said it was a story?

by **missypuss** » November 18th, 2005, 5:25 am

Why Primus we are all the actors in our own stories hunny arent we? At least thats what I think anyhow. We react and play a role depending on our own , and the scripts of those we interact with...sometimes i play the dominant pussycat , other times i just want to submit and obey .......and roll over and get my tummy scratched.. :wink:

by **Primus** » November 18th, 2005, 5:27 am

Some of use wander about this stage for more than just our mere hour and are indeed seen in later scenes and acts.

by **Mallic** » November 18th, 2005, 6:04 am

Well puss, do we actually know that we are just actors? While we may be able to ab-lib, we have no effect on the script....

by **missypuss** » November 18th, 2005, 8:38 am

Indeed that may be true my friend Mallic If we are all ad libbing in the little scenes we play out every day then the script is open to the effects of change surely? And if we are not the actors in the scenes of our own lives then surely that would just make us the observers or on lookers and unable to take responsibility for the things that come our way........or the things that we never do.. :?:

by **Mallic** » November 18th, 2005, 4:52 pm

Tell me puss, have you EVER realized anything you have done? In my experiance, everything happenes spontaniously with little or no direction from me

by **Primus** » November 18th, 2005, 4:56 pm

then you are not really in control of your destiny. During last December I amazed all of my friends by doing feats they would have never dreamed up. I bet life and limb on acts of luck that were beyond impossible. Such things take a lot of direction from said person and usually require the expenditure of many Karma points. Here it is almost a year later and my KP are still no where near the levels they once were

by **Mallic** » November 18th, 2005, 5:01 pm

Ahh.... the age old karma debate. One of the greatest people on this planet I have ever met has been screwed over by almost everyone he has needed help from

by **missypuss** » November 18th, 2005, 5:19 pm

Yes Mallic I think I realise most of the things I do . Unfortunately. Dont you? :?:

by **Mallic** » November 18th, 2005, 6:23 pm

Only after.....

by **loadedkaos** » November 18th, 2005, 11:35 pm

Life dosen't make sense enough for no one else to exist, if reality is just an unconcious creation of the mind then it would probably be more geared towards a theme and if we were all actors in the play of life then all of our lives would have a simple purpose and direction not to mention a definite theme.

by **missypuss** » November 19th, 2005, 10:18 am

But doesnt our lives have a theme dependant on the place in the script we are at at that moment.?
I know life is random and chaotic- what i was trying to say was that each one of us in one way or another affects somebody elses script . Not a script written and planned but our own random script on that day at that time.. Its a large concept. And one that I think is probably running away with my tiny mind..
Anyone care to elaborate? I think I need an understudy.. :wink:

by **SubmissMe** » November 20th, 2005, 10:07 am

Missypuss, im honestly not quite sure what you're getting at.

Primus, your idea is interesting. However it requires far too many assumptions to be considered a theory. We have no proof whatsoever about telepathy and the like, and it is nonsense to assume that the pyramids were made by people with superior minds and not slaves.

I tend to dismiss solipsism (the view that you are the only mind and everyone else is artificial) because I learn new things everyday off other people. if they don't exist then I'm learning something new off myself which makes no sense.

Here's a question, is there a difference between our mind and our brain? Are they seperate or just the same thing with a different name?

by **Primus** » November 20th, 2005, 11:36 am

Maybe you don't have any proof of telepathy, but I use it to win in games, you know kinda scope out my opponent's head and such. Psychokinesis isn't one of my stronger skills but others in my family have brought sodas and the like to themselves from across the room. I am not the one to think the hive mind theory first I merely thought it was a rather good and logical idea

by **SubmissMe** » November 21st, 2005, 3:25 am

How do you know you "scope out" you opponents head and not someone else's in the room at the time?

by **Primus** » November 21st, 2005, 2:28 pm

when you pick up everyone's minds you kinda get a loose idea as to where that mind is positioned in the room so I target the one that's in the same general place as my oponent. Before you ask about there being 3 people close together don't forget there would also be 3 minds as well so pick the one that is your oponent of the cluster

by **missypuss** » November 21st, 2005, 3:54 pm

"ping" :twisted:

by **SubmissMe** » November 21st, 2005, 3:58 pm

When you say you "see" these minds, how do you see them and what do they look like?

by **Mallic** » November 21st, 2005, 4:02 pm

Cpuld you teach me Prim?

by **Primus** » November 21st, 2005, 5:25 pm

through the minds eye they show up as indistinct clouds of colors... most of the color's haven't been seen sicne the sixties. Anyways the color and the shape of the cloud is mostly a signature of the person and what they're thinking of so I can kinda find someone I've met before based upon thier cloud.

As far as teaching it I'd have no problem teaching you if you are prepared to undergo the same scaring it took for me to gain them. Firstly you have to have a deeply loved one (let's say a grandmother) contract a horrible disease (let's say lung cancer in the very early ninties) and beat it... but then die mysteriously in the night without any warning (from say an anurism) If this is done right the loved on will appear in your dreams before you're awhere that she is dead to say farwell. Also if the rest of your family has the same dream that's probably a good sign your on your way (I was five when this happened).

The second trial involves a vision of the future, something minor but unchangable (such as seeing yourself waking up and being late for school) and no setting the alarm to get you up earlier won't help... you'll think you've got time take another small nap and wind up causing the vision to occur.

Also if you've got a long line of things like this in your family... that's probably a good thing too (rather than losing a member or two witch trials I lost an entire wing and a generation in the rest of the family

by **SubmissMe** » November 21st, 2005, 5:44 pm

So arguably because of your background in metaphysics this has influenced your so called ability.

by **Primus** » November 21st, 2005, 6:14 pm

My mind blocked painful areas from my life and instead opened up new areas for me to access, I would agree to that.

by **SubmissMe** » November 22nd, 2005, 7:08 am

Do you believe that 'mind' and 'brain' are two seperate things?

by **Primus** » November 22nd, 2005, 11:45 am

the brain is like an HDD it is where the information is stored. the Mind on the other hand is like your OS and other stored information.

by **SubmissMe** » November 23rd, 2005, 6:54 am

So the mind is a part of the brain?

by **aeroue** » November 23rd, 2005, 5:00 pm

No, otherwhise when you die you would be dead and that doesn't happen.

The brain holds all the information you need and controls your body in this life, soon as you die your mind is gone with your soul, your brain remains.

So they are different.

btw
Im a philosopher

by **SubmissMe** » November 24th, 2005, 4:14 pm

I'm a philosopher as well.

And as a philosopher I'm sure you can appreciate you are sprouting nonsense. You wouldn't be a realtion to Descartes by any chance would you?

by **SubmissMe** » November 24th, 2005, 4:24 pm

In fact, it's not my style to tell people they are sprouting rubbish without giving a proper explaination. So here goes......

The brain is spatial and the mind would be non spatial (so it can go with the soul to wherever the hell you said they go). As they are entirely different in physicality it is BY DEFINITION impossible for them to interact. Therefore the idea that the mind and brain are interacting in harmony until the point of death is not only impossibly but completely ridiculous.

I called our friend here "Descartes" as Descartes claimed that the mind and body were seperate, but interacted through the pineal gland. At the time nobody knew what the pineal gland did so Descartes naturally assumed it made the interaction between mind and body. Just like the poster above me makes the assumption that once we die our mind and soul are seperated from the body.

What a load of rubbish.

by **aeroue** » November 25th, 2005, 5:46 pm

Have you ever had an out of body experience?

Obviously not or you would appreciate it is possible to exist without your body.

As we have bodies (and so a brain) and can exist without them then there must be somehing of us that is non physical (the soul/mind). FOr it to be part of us it must be able to interact with our physical self.

Thus there are two aspects of us and they do interact.

Of course this won't sway your view as it is subjective but I know I am not spouting rubbish :D

by **Primus** » November 25th, 2005, 10:07 pm

Not all of us have both. I have a second living with me that is just the spirit but no body. Its proof enough to me that they are seperate things

by **futile_mind** » November 26th, 2005, 11:12 am

If OBE's prove that that spirit can exist without a body than perhaps dreams are not part of the mind, but the soul. Perhaps that is what happens when we die: We go into an everlasting dream.

by **Primus** » November 26th, 2005, 6:41 pm

Dreams are that of the soul, but it is up to the mind to remember them. So then if we die we get to go to an everlasting dream but would not be able to remember a moment of it... That my friend is hell being forced to live that what you want most but not be able to remember a minute of it once it happens

by **Mallic** » November 26th, 2005, 7:25 pm

When I remember my dreams, I remember the FEELING, not the actual dream

by **SubmissMe** » November 27th, 2005, 9:10 am

Dreams are not part of the soul as a soul DOES NOT EXIST!

What is a soul? What does it do? Where's the proof?

Dear me i'm an empiricist surrounded by slow rationalists.

Oh, and the lack of proof of an OBE suggests that they simply do not happen. A bit of eliminitive materialism here would go a long way to contradicting you.

by **futile_mind** » November 27th, 2005, 11:19 am

OBE's are sometimes associated with near-death experiences, a phenomenon reported by some people who have been clinically dead, then returned to life. The walking toward the light, or seeing demons might be caused by thier beliefs. Even if someone is not religious, there still might be a little bit of religion burnt on thier subconsious.

I, however, was never really forced to go to church, so I might find out whether or not I am right if I have a NDE.

EDIT: For a scientific view of the soul go to:
http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Soul&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&linktext=soul

( CTRL+F and type "Science and the soul" )

by **aeroue** » November 27th, 2005, 12:06 pm

SubmissMe no need to be calling everyone slow I know for a fact im not.

Besides why should we have to justify to you? Why don't you prove we don't have a soul?

A soul is that part of us which is immortal which lives on when the body dies.

Thats is what it is and what it does.

The proof you have to find for yourself.

Just because you have no experience of something yourself does not mean it does not exist.

Besides you havn't yet contributed anything your just denying what other people say with no evidence.

by **Primus** » November 27th, 2005, 1:40 pm

It's said that not everyone has a soul. It's not something that you are just given it's something that you have to earn. With that being said it is quite possible that our friend here has indeed not yet earn thier soul and that is why they deny it's existance.

I'm not saying that one has to be religous to earn a soul either, no of course that is not the case... Art is the window to soul so to produce wonderful works of art would be to be full of soul

The Problem of other minds

The Problem of other minds

One is the loneliest number that you'll ever see...

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