I need some help

[danny1988]

Just gotta say from where you both were to where you are now is loads better IMO.
You seem to be talking more and being a lot more open about your own desires and fears which is the only way this will work going forward.
The other good thing I’m seeing is Justin is getting clear of the hypnosis to a point he knows what he’s comfortable with and is actually telling you his fears.

I think the hypnosis removed all his boundaries as to what he was comfortable with and if it carried on you would have lost each other as you wouldn’t have been able to see what was happening until it was too late.

It sounds like you both are testing the water with different things now and seeing what each of you like and are comfortable with and pushing the boundaries in good ways and not just removing them entirely.

That does explain some of Justin’s reactions when he was getting clear of hypnosis and realising what happened.

I honestly think you should avoid hypnosis entirely with this whole thing once Justin is totally clear and just enjoy experimenting as you don’t really need it from what I’m seeing.

I wish my partner was more accommodating with the threeway idea, as it was fun the one time we did have one but you can’t have everything haha

Enjoy and stay safe both of you!

[wmxx]

Wow. Things seem to be getting back to normal here. Justin and I had an extensive great talk last night about everything that has happened from girlie girl to me moving in with Glenn. We agreed no more hypno unless it is for just me and him not anyone else. Danny, thanks you mentioned we needed a wide open talk, and we concluded that all our road blocks tend to point to hypnosis. We still want to explore our crazy fantasies but without hypnosis. Justin is doing so much better. He says he still wants to be my affair, but he has a voice on the other side that keeps it from getting away from him. Other times he says he doesn’t want to be my affair. Thankfully, he is supportive of Glenn and I getting together a few times a week. He is given me a big test of trust. He told me he has to trust me or we will have issues, and I have to trust him. I told him again I am going to bring a woman over for us and let him have sex with her. I have been working on this for quite sometime and even mentioned here that I had a surprise for Justin, but it fell through. I have been talking with a few others, and one is interested and wanted to see photos of me and Justin which I sent yesterday. Still waiting to hear back. This is a hugeeeee test for me, I trust Justin enough to do this for him, but as I think, it is really a test for me. He let’s me have sex with anyone, I feel guilty in a way that I don’t allow him some sexual follies as well. I’ve seen her picture, and she is an exotic looking beauty. I’m not going to write about her anymore. Justin knows I am doing this, and he said he really doesn’t need to do that, he knows I trust him. It is going to happen, the only question is when. I just hope it works out. This woman is 26 and she is single, and has never done this, but it is her fantasy. She wants to do it before she settles down with a guy so may be a 1 shot deal, which is fine. We talked about so much. I love Justin more each day. He always sees things through my eyes when considering things. I don’t know how long this will go on with Glenn, but I love him, and I’m glad it worked out this way, there is trust that is getting restored and that is everything.

[wmxx]

We even talked about me and my endless attempts to become Bambi. After reading all it entails he said he liked a lot of it, but was glad it didn’t work because part of it was becoming mindless. He said in retrospect, he would have hated it because my mind is part of his attraction to me, and to try and communicate to a mindless airhead would have been awful. Are there any milder files out there that could be used for just me and him? Also, I tried at least 6 times and it never worked for me at all. Does that mean I am doing something wrong? He gets so immersed so easy, and I get nothing. I would like to figure out if there is something I could do so it works on me. Then after New Year’s maybe I could use it to quit smoking....ugh. I already know how hard that is going to be. My problem is I really love to smoke, especially after sex, and I have a lot of sex lol. I know this might sound awful but I keep giving Justin a cigarette after sex, kind of a social thing. I’m trying to let him switch from those stinky cigars. Neither is good, but I thought after New Year’s we could just quit together, so very short term. Anyone have suggestions on how I can get hypnotized? I just want to see what it feels like.

[wmxx]

Thanks Danny reading your words, you pretty much made clear a path we needed to be on. We have always had clear open and honest communication. This stuff made it hard. How do you tell your man you are in love with another man? Unless he is on hypnosis? I guess you have to trust. We are awakened to the fact we need to discuss our true feelings when we do things. I plan on keeping Justin well informed regarding Glenn, he is not a threat in any way to Justin. I will stick to the 1-3 times per week, with the average close to 2. We are in a great place right now. Justin has his moments, but far clearer mind now. Hope you can have a discussion with your partner that opens the door for your own 3-way. I know Justin will love it!

[wmxx]

Justin and I are in such a better place now. I didn’t even realize how much his hypno was having an adverse effect on our relationship. He was so insistent that I move in with Glenn permanently so he could be my affair. I am in love with Glenn and he made me feel like I wanted to spend my life with Glenn, it started eroding our trust and our emotions were all misdirected. He really thought he wanted me to always be with Glenn so I my affair with him was no longer threatened, I was always going to be with Glenn. I started believing it myself, and when I moved in with Glenn I was thinking this is the man I want to be with now, and Justin kept reinforcing it to me, it seemed so right. What a mess looking back. Put a chink in our trust. The clearer Justin’s head becomes the more he understands why I was going to be with Glenn from now on. We were riding on the edge of disaster. I can’t help but think ironically, it was Glenn that saved us. If he didn’t get all jealous, I very well might have become his girl for a long time, what a mistake. So great full things worked out the way they did. I had Justin read a lot of what was going on. He agreed I was pushing him into the Glenn’s arms, and I was blurred by my feelings for Glenn. We averted a disaster. Someone is watching out for us.

[wmxx]

OMG! Nicole wrote me back. She wrote, WOW you two are great looking, I feel so below where you are in that regard. I would definitely be interested. Amber, your eyes and lips are amazing, actually your whole body, can you show me how to do my makeup like that, you are stunning. Your man is totally a keeper! Here is my number, give me a call. I just shared this with Justin, showed him her pic, he just said wow, she is really pretty. I don’t know about this. I told him to just try it once for me, we are here to explore and have fun! If it doesn’t work out well, we will not try it anymore. He is in. Calling Nicole now!!!!! I’m nervous but excited.

[wmxx]

I just called her and got her voicemail. She immediately text me back and said she was at work, and would call me back a little after 12. Too many people around at work. Can I call you a little after 12? She said, I meant to ask you where you lived, and she told me where she lived? How close are we? Thanks Amber.

[danny1988]

Hypnosis works different for everyone and at different speeds, some files work others don’t and others work too well.

I found from my past experiences that it’s gradual and you don’t know it’s working until you look back at before you started. I tried feminisation stuff in the past even got to the point of thinking of transitioning before realising how deep I was. Now I have a nice balance mentally.

So it may work for you it may not and hypnosis isn’t anything special feeling wise when in trance you just feel really relaxed and floaty or it’s that way for me. Especially with my hypnotherapy.
Out of trance you don’t really feel any different other than you think different depending on what you listen to.

It sounds like you and Justin are getting to a very good place where you can experiment and experience new things which is great
It will take time to remove the last of the suggestions but he will get there.

You both were very lucky not to loose each other from what you went through and I can imagine it was very confusing for you both especially with your emotions for Glenn and Justin’s pushing you to move in and be your affair.

Hypnosis alters your perceptions of what you want and can remove inhibitions and what you are comfortable with. Like what happened with Justin and pushing you to move in with Glenn that was all the hypnosis from what I saw. The thing I’ve learned when someone is that deep into hypnosis it’s very hard to get the true answer out of someone as your always getting the hypnotic suggestion as the response.

I learned a while ago hypnosis can be very dangerous depending on what you use it for. It’s why I mainly just use it for self improvement now haha. But yeah I don’t think either of you need hypnosis for this and it would cause more harm then good IMO. Your gonna have a lot of fun without it.

As for my threeway haha yeah we nearly got to the point again before but he backed out, I did tell him I love him and sex is just sex to me and it could be fun for us both. But he’s pretty insecure which is the main reason he says no

[wmxx]

I would have said no every step in my life, but I’m ready to try this, but nervous. I looked up we are about 12 miles apart. I text her back and shared that not too far. She said oh that’s not too bad. She text me back and asked me if we smoked weed? Cigarettes? I said I smoke cigarettes, we both smoke weed but not often. She text back she smokes both also. She said she could bring some if I want. I’m kind of nervous, would take the edge off:), but what I have is really strong and lasts awhile. I said yes bring some! She said ok great. I’ll talk to you soon. I can’t believe I am actually going to do this, I didn’t respond to you last week because no pics. I’m glad you followed up again. I’m so excited but sooo nervous. Glad she will bring something to take the edge off.

[wmxx]

I just got off the phone with Nicole. I took up almost all her lunch hour. We were talking about girlie stuff clothes, heels, makeup. She is so much like me, she said she has over 100 pairs of heels, and I told her I have at least that. She is 1/2 size different than me, so we talked about maybe exchanging some. Same with clothes, but she is bustier than me. She got implants up to a D then DD. I told her I made the same mistake I am a D want DD or DDD. I asked how she liked the DD she said they are a perfect size now, I love them. I told her I’m going to get DD. She wants me to do her hair nails and makeup to see what I come up with, I told her That is what I have done my whole life. We really connected. She is a lot more comfortable. I caught Justin off guard and told him to say hello. He put her at ease and said no pressure. We are easy going, don’t worry. He gave me back the phone, and she said, wow he even has the radio calming strong voice. I feel kind of inferior here. I said no, you are gorgeous and I can tell you are nice, you will fit right in here. Justin will treat you like you are family watch! So then she asked about Justin. I hate to ask this but he isn’t too big is he? I laughed and said no he is perfectly average. I said I always worry about the same thing because I do exercises and like being very tight. She said, I asked because I do the same thing. Anyway Tomm night at 7! If nothing else I am going to get my 1 st friend out of this we are very similar.

[wmxx]

I was suposed to go to Glenn’s house to have sex with him tomorrow, but going today instead at 4. Can’t wait to see him!

[wmxx]

This may sound odd but being able to sleep with Glenn anytime I want is actually bringing Justin and I closer. No having to hide my feelings for Glenn no moving in, and all the drama. I told him I was going today because Nicole is coming Tomm. And he just said enjoy your time with him, hope all stays well there for you. Our trust and communication lines are better. I can enjoy my time with Glenn.

[wmxx]

I just wanted to say something about where I am in the hypno removal department. I am becoming more and more aware of things that I should be but not completely. This is how it is for me, just asking if this is like others? Maybe everyone is different. I know Amber moving in with Glenn and making me her affair, when it crosses my mind I often fight it off knowing it isn’t what I want. However sometimes when that thought comes into my mind, it gains ground and I start thinking I have to experience her being Glenn’s girl so I can be her affair. This sometimes lasts long enough that I want to ask Amber to please move in with him. Then without a thought, I realize I don’t really want that.

[wmxx]

Regarding what she said about her seeing Glenn, I totally agree, we are closer because there is no hypno involved, and she is 100% transparent about her feelings for him, and has no intentions of anything beyond what she has, and she makes sure I’m aware of her intentions and feelings every day. It works for me, I do trust her a lot.we came here to do this kind of stuff so I’m glad she is enjoying it. As far as Nicole goes, since it is happening I am embracing it, otherwise wasn’t on my list. Amber is really taking a liking to Nicole, they seem to have similar personalities so at the least, I think a friendship will come out of this. If so it will all be worthwhile. We will see what happens. I’m worried Amber may freak out when I have sex with Nicole, I really hope not. I trust she has thought hard about this. Nicole is a hottie, I will say that. I should be ecstatic I’m going to fuck her, but not so much. Maybe after I will feel that way.

[wmxx]

Home from Glenn’s filled in my honey on the visit, and told him Glenn is not a threat to him. He realizes that but I will reassure him every time. I truly am blessed to have an incredible man! Justin you are my world! You get your fun tomm. Night. Nicole seems like a sweetheart and she is gorgeous. Feeling a bit nervous but not as much asI thought. Justin is nervous about me being ok. He gave me a code word to use if I am having an issue. He always thinks of me, never himself. He is true to his love. No hypno he never panics or over reacts to anything. He is hard not to love!

[wmxx]

I text Nicole and told her to bring some extra clothes and something to wear to bed since we will be smoking. We don’t want her to have to drive if she is impaired. We have 2 extra bedrooms, so please consider that ok? She text back, I should be all right. I appreciate the hospitality, I’ll bring something just in case. This is pretty strong so I guess maybe I should consider that. Thank you Amber.

[wmxx]

I followed by saying if it turns out you stay over, if you want I will do your hair and makeup, even nails if you want? I’ll show you my heel collection, and some of my clothes:). She text back now that would be fun, would love to see what you have, I think we have similar tastes. I’ll make breakfast too. I’m making some things tonight, so when we get the munchies, there will be a lot to choose from. She said girlfriend, you are gonna spoil me, you don’t have to do all that. I asked her what she likes to drink? We don’t drink much at all, anything you like? She said she doesn’t drink much either, an occasional beer, not fussy on what kind. She said you know I have been looking at doing something like this for 3 months. A lot of jerks out there or just people that just didn’t fit. You two are so pretty and handsome, and you are a lot like me, I really think I got lucky. I told her, we got lucky as well you are beautiful! Justin is special, he is an amazing and patient man, he will make sure you are comfortable I our home, that is certain. I already get and sense that in you both. You can bet on it, if for any reason you are uncomfortable just let us know, and we will be fine, and turn it into a night of friends ok? Thank you, I am already comfortable just nervous, I have never done this before. I told her we haven’t either, we will just let things happen as they happen, and see what happens. Ok, I will let you enjoy your evening, we will see you Tomm.

[wmxx]

She thinks Amber is spoiling her, she hasn’t even begun to see how Amber spoils me. I wake up in the morning most of the time because she wraps around me and starts kissing me, puts her boobs in my mouth, and next thing I know we are having sex. We take a shower together just about every morning. She most of the time walks around the house topless or in a bra, and she is dolled all the time, yes high heels in the house, not sure if she owns anything else. She is a cuddle bug, if we are sitting around the house, and we are both home, we are usually locked in each other’s arms. She makes me 3 meals every day, sometimes I like to help because I like to cook. She even made me 3 meals when she was living with Glenn briefly. Sometime after lunch, during the afternoon, she is ready for sex again, and even now that she is seeing Glenn some afternoons, sex is right after lunch most days. She comes home from Glenn’s the same woman that left the house, a big kiss, long hug, no different. Some men would not want all the attention, I love it because I simply adore her! The more I think about the hypno, the more it (me) was ruining things. I go back and read what I was doing and I was literally shipping her off to Glenn, over and over, and she told me what I’m reading was about 20% of how much I was begging her to move in with him and be his. I’m so glad she held it together, I literally forced her in a sense to be with him. She even told me she was starting to love him more and more, and started feeling that she wanted to be with him. I can understand why. Somehow, someway, she stayed with me. What a total disaster. I am so thankful she didn’t end up leaving. I wouldn’t have wanted to be her at that point. I never loved another human being in my life remotely close to her. If she ever did really leave me, I would not function well for a long long time. We are back in a very strong place right now, perhaps even better. I will continue to do everything I can to deserve her, as she does for me every day. This is for you Amber, I am such a better man because I am with you! I love you so much!

[wmxx]

Justin sometimes you melt me. Correction all the time you melt me. I was in a horrible place for sure. I really felt I had no choice but to move in with Glenn. I knew when I did you would push to keep me there, and it wasn’t at all what I wanted, but I love Glenn so it would have become easy to stay with him. Anyway, I love you and that is behind us. I’m very nervous about tonight, the closer it gets the more nervous I get. I’m not nervous about Justin having sex with Nicole. I think about it. Here I am in love with another man, and Justin is perfectly calm about it, under our agreement. He trusts me in a way that feels so good. It opens me up to be completely honest with him about Glenn. Regardless of my feelings, I would never leave Justin for Glenn under any circumstances. He knows that and it is really adding to the trust we have. I really believe after tonight my trust for him is going to become visible to him, he certainly has earned it, and so have I. I want our love and trust and always open honest communication to rule our relationship. If we have that we are destined for an amazing life together. We are both working toward that. We talk openly about Glenn, tonight, and anything! It’s an amazing feeling for us both. The real thing that worries me is I have never actually been with a woman before. I have always loved beautiful women, and make no mistake, Nicole is very very pretty. I don’t know how I am going to react if she starts touching tender places if you know what I mean. Justin has been amazingly relaxed, and said just relax yourself, and if something doesn’t feel right, it is easy to just stop. I will make sure if I see any discomfort on your part, I will pause put my arms around you and ask if everything is ok. He just makes everything feel ok, it is probably his best asset. He always takes time for me in any tough moments. He doesn’t like to see me stressed, and same here. I don’t like to see him stressed.

[wmxx]

Nicole text me. She basically said this is hard to bring up, especially in person. I just want you to know, I for some reason have a very difficult time reaching an orgasm. I just don’t want you to think if something happens tonight, and I don’t orgasm, it won’t mean I didn’t have a good time. Does that change anything? I just replied to her and said, thanks for sharing that, and NO it doesn’t change anything, don’t worry we are new to this, there are no expectations. Best not to work yourself up, and just enjoy whatever happens, even if nothing happens, it is ok either way. My best guess is, Justin will make you orgasm, if I had to bet on it, I would say yes. He isn’t into himself, he will make sure you get something before he worries about himself. She just text back, well that would be different! I said, it will be different, but I’ll leave it at that:). I just put some pressure on Justin lol, because I know he will read this. I have no doubt he will give her an orgasm, probably more. I guess everyone has their nervous system charged. Probably good we will do some weed, it will definitely enhance matters and relax everyone.

[wmxx]

Justin out of the blue said he feels guilty he is going to sleep with Nicole, and asked me if I would sleep with Glenn today. Kind of caught me off guard. I said if I truly believed that I would be in bed with Glenn right now, but I don’t. Sleeping with Glenn has nothing to do with you sleeping with Nicole.I think he had a hypno moment. He said you get short changed because I’m probably going to be with her. I told him there is nothing to be guilty about, I mean that, I want you to experience this. He seemed to come out, and said sorry just an uncontrolled thought. I said I love you very much, and most of all I trust you and I’m showing you that tonight!

[wmxx]

Justin sat down with me. He said he read all the stuff that was going on when he wanted to be my affair. I know my real Justin is back. He apologized for how he was. I saw your agony and frustration. Particularly all the times you said I was driving you right into Glenn’s arms. How many times you said the only way everyone could be happy is if I move in with Glenn. I basically forced you to fall in love with him, forced you to sleep with him on a daily basis, sometimes twice. I’m really sorry. I guess what I am saying is, I’m the reason you are in love with Glenn. I really do trust you. I know you mentioned to me that you would like to see him the week before he left more because he will be gone 10 days. I’m ok with that. I don’t know what your getting out of that relationship, and what you need. I’m responsible, so I just want you to get what you need out of it. If it is extra time before he leaves, or whatever it is, as long as we are open and honest about things, I’m ok. If it hurts us in some way it won’t work. I said I appreciate you going back and reading all that. Yes, you did push me, and it became very emotional with him. I love you so much! There are times where I wish I could spend a night or a weekend with him. There are times I wish I was seeing him more, most of the time a couple nights a week works fine. I am happy that you will allow me what I need. I promise I will always be open and honest, and it will never hurt our relationship. If it does, my choice is easy. It is always you! I have been reading, and yes, a woman can love two men at the same time.

[wmxx]

Well it is true, I created Glenn, so how could I be so insensitive to pull you away. I’m ok with it, because I have to be. I know it would hurt you, and that just puts a mistake on top of a mistake. I’m not going to do that all over again. Just be honest and whatever you need to get out of that relationship I understand, just make sure it does not impact us, and I am fine with it.

[wmxx]

Now I am watching Amber model clothes and asking how it oks. I said your so hot in anything. She’s worried her boobs look to small ,Nicole is a 34DD I will look so small, she needs a top or dress that makes her boobs pop. You can tell the moment is getting close, even what heels to wear. I’m sure she will be a knockout whatever she decides, 1 hour away, this could be a wild night or a dud...

[wmxx]

All I can say is holy shit. I’ll never forget this night as long as I live. Amber was amazing, her and Nicole were like long lost friends, and watching the two of them last night hanging on each other was so erotic. Nicole is really an amazing gorgeous woman, and so nice. She fit in perfectly. She spent the night in our bed. Amber and Nicole making breakfast between kissing sessions. Think Amber has a new girlfriend and so do I! I’m somewhere between a dream and a beautiful reality right now. More after Nicole leaves which could be never! Just kidding. What a night and I don’t think it ended yet!

[wmxx]

Just one thing that shocked the hell out of me. I’m not sure how long we had been in bed at the time, quite a while. Amber said I want to put Justin’s cock inside you, and she started giving me a blow job for several minutes and then kissed my cock, and said have fun as I positioned myself to fuck Nicole, and she put my cock inside of her, I was totally blown away!

[wmxx]

Amber is doing a makeover on Nicole... trust me she doesn’t need one. Just a bit from last night. Nicole was a little late. Amber answered the door, I was right behind her. They hugged for a bit longer than a conventional hug, then she said this is Justin. I welcomed her, and gave her a big hug. She looked over Amber and said I love your belly chains, so sexy on you. Your so beautiful, and Justin, you are so good looking, what a couple you make. Amber immediately said I love those heels, so sexy, and you are gorgeous Nicole. I chimed in yes, you are drop dead gorgeous, she kind of blushed a bit. So I said if you want to go in the living room with Amber I will be in shortly. Had a couple bottles of champagne on ice, to toast the night, and went in with them on a try, hard to carry. I handed one to Nicole then Amber. Amber and Nicole were on the couch really close together. I stood in front and said let me make a toast. Nicole, we welcome you into our home. There is nothing to fear here, nothing to hide, just allow your mind to be open, and allow the night to be a welcome one, that at a minimum creates new friends. We touched glasses and took a sip. I was going to sit on the recliner, but Amber said here you go and she made a space between her and Nicole. Nicole asked how we met, and Amber told her and relived our 1st date with me, the plaque with her name next to mine and the animals. He told me, I don’t know if we will ever see each other again, but this is my oasis, when things maybe aren’t going well in my life, I come here and it restores me. I want you to always have a place where you can find peace in your life, your own little private sanctuary. Amber had some tears flowing as did Nicole. I ran to get them tissues, and said this should be happy tears, and Nicole said if that was my first date I would ask you to marry me on the spot! Amber said I knew right then this was a special man, and he is. Nicole asked, do you have a brother. I said sadly, I do not, but love appears in strange places. Your beautiful, and it will appear in your life, be patient. More to add a ton more

[wmxx]

So Amber asked how her relationships have been. She said horrible. She had 2 meaningful relationships, jealously and abuse destroyed them both. She said the last one put her in the hospital, and she started reaching for words, and got a little teary. I put my arms around her and said it’s ok, take a breath. Amber came over and hugged her and said that is really sad. I know the feeling all to well. Just take your time, everything is safe and loving here. Justin said you are a beautiful woman, that is so sad. Just know it isn’t your fault. If you need to talk about it, we are great listeners and empathizes, please know that. She remained choked up, and finally said, where do you people come from, how can anyone really be this nice? Justin in 20 minutes you took me from nervous and scared to death, to feeling so welcome, Amber you are like a sister or very close friend, and you don’t even know me? Amber said happy people are full of goodness, we are very happy, hope we spill some happiness on your life. So after more getting to know you stuff, she asked if we wanted to get high. So we did, and we really did. We are sitting on the couch and Amber says, ok let’s break any sexual tension, I will start by kissing Justin, then you and Justin then me and you. So Amber and I kissed for a few minutes, and I kissed Nicole for about the same, and Amber and Nicole kissed for at least 10 minutes! I was in awe watching the passion. Amber asked for a beer, and I got one for each. When I came back Amber and Nicole were liplocked and hands were on breasts, and exploring. I suddenly felt like a 3rd wheel. More later.

[wmxx]

So Amber looked me and said Nicole needs a nice kiss. I sat down next to her and Amber and we kissed for quite awhile. Amber pulled her top down and started licking her boob. Nicole pulled away and took her top and bra off, Amber followed and did the same. I started licking Amber’s boobs and next thing you know Amber is on one of Nicole’s boobs and me the other. Amber said let’s finish this in the bedroom. We get there and everyone gets naked, and Nicole has a body that is so hot. She starts kissing Amber I’m fondling them both. Soon Nicole goes down on Amber and very quickly Amber reaches orgasm. Ultimately she starts giving me a blow job and says I want to put your clock in Nicole. I’m aware she doesn’t orgasm very often. So I’m probing her all over the place and can’t seem to get her off. I decided to pull out leaving the top of my clock circling her clit and I felt her starting to move like I’m right near it so I let her direct me with her positioning, and bingo, she stared to climax. I’m not sure what Amber is doing , so I went back in, probably 45 minutes later I just had to unload, she orgasmed with me, and I was done. It was amazing, she is definitely a hottie and for the first time we had amazing chemistry. Amber took over, and goes down on her after I just came in her, so I started kissing Nicole. She is a great kisser. Amber came up for air and I went down on her til she came. We all played around, the rest of the night was more of the same. We invited Nicole to spend the night in bed, and started all over again in the morning. We all took a shower together, and I was done, and Amber later told me they had sex again. Amber gave her a makeover and she was awestruck how she looked. More coming.

[wmxx]

Left out Amber’s game. After the first session, Amber gave everyone a legal pad and marker. She had a list of questions, and wanted an answer 1-10. This right after we got high again. I don’t remember them all but she asked Nicole on a scale of 1-10 how was it. She wrote 10++ and Amber and I said 10. Would you do it again all 10s.

[wmxx]

After Nicole left, I gave Amber a long long hug and told her how much I loved her. She gave me a weekend like no other, one I will never forget. She told me it was as excited and happy as she has seen me in a long time, I thought it would bother me seeing fucking Nicole, but actually It made me feel good seeing you with her and enjoying her. We invited Nicole back next weekend which got an instant yes! Amber had one more surprise. She talked to Nicole a lot while in the bedroom trying on clothes and heels, and yes a lot of making out. I’m glad she has made a new friend with benefits. Little did I know after a lot of reassuring from Amber, next Saturday she is staying overnight at Glenn’s so I can have a 1-1 night with Nicole. I said are you serious? You will be ok with that? She said yes, it is time you had some fun too, I really really trust you. So I asked her are we heading into an open relationship? She laughed and said we are already in one. I actually have read a lot about them. Many shrinks say if you are doing it to save a bad marriage it will destroy it. If you have a strong loving relationship, set boundaries, communicate like you never have before, and are 100% honest all the time what your feeling with your other partner, and don’t neglect your primary relationship you will likely enhance your relationship. People in this type of relationship have communication on steroids and that is the key to all relationships. I let her read it. So most of the afternoon into tonight we both took guidelines that we each answered ourselves and then compared. The idea is to negotiate your needs with your primary partner in several very important categories. One is negotiate what type of other relationship you want and are ok with. Penetration or just oral, a limit to how many times with the same person, or none. A commuted 2nd relationship meaning love, or non committed. How often can you see your 2nd relationship partner. You have to have rules and boundaries in place. They will change as needed, but you have to talk open and honestly all the time. What we have agreed on so far coming. Jealousy is going to happen it is a given. It is much easier to deal with in an open relationship. You always have to reassure your partner if you are in a 2nd commuted relationship not to worry I am not leaving you. Always give time to love each other or the shiny new penny will ruin you.

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So the guideline from a shrink of essential things to negotiate, the first is safety above all. We both take that seriously so no debate needed there

First up is what type of open relationship do you want

Me: That has already been decided because Amber is in another committed relationship.

Amber: committed relationship

How often are you comfortable with your primary partner being with their lover:

Me: I have to answer different because she is in a committed relationship already. So with Glenn? I learned something from this weekend. Before I thought if she spent too much time with him, I would worry about things. After educating myself reading, and getting a taste myself, I don’t feel like I have to worry as long as I know I’m secure with her. Her trust in me, that she gave me last night was a leap of faith. It made me feel so much better about us, not because I slept with Nicole, because she showed so much trust in me. My answer would be to see him as much as she feels she needs him.

Amber: I hope last night showed you how wonderful it can be to have someone else that makes you feel good. I’m blessed to have a man that has given me that freedom, I love you for that. There are times I really miss Glenn and those times more time is needed, other times at least every 2 to 3 days.

How do you feel about overnights and if ok how often?

Me: I didn’t like the idea of overnights, with a few exceptions. Right now I feel as long as it is discussed, I’m open to what you need.

Amber: The hardest part for me with Glenn is meet have sex lay in bed for 15 minutes or so and I leave. I have no opportunity to talk to him learn about him, or anything. He soon will be gone for 10 days. I would love to have several overnights before he leaves, and again when he comes home. Otherwise as I feel I really need them, not sure of a number but 1-3 times a month maybe.

How do you feel about travel with your or vacations?

Me: I’m not sure that would be something I would feel comfortable with.

Amber: I think a short weekend but nothing more than that

So a lot of agreement, in certain cases like she described, I’m ok with extra overnights, and 1-4 times a month would work for me.

This is harder than it looks, this is just one topic, there are a lot, but we want to do it right.

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I think I agree with Justin on most things. I think the hard thing for him is I’m already in another committed (described as loving and emotional attachment), and it is harder for him to realize that requires more than just sex, although I think last night has really helped him understand. It isn’t the time I necessarily spend with Glenn, it is how I treat Justin after that time, which will never be different, in fact probably better as he now knows. I think this will draw us so much closer I really do, as long as we are open and honest always

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the evidence suggests that it’s a style that, in some populations, leads to greater relationship satisfaction than monogamy.

polyamory, where both partners approve of having close emotional, romantic, and sexual relationships outside of the couple itself.

Actually We got this all wrong. It is supposed to be no rules. The person in another committed relationship sets their own boundaries, and the primary relationship partner accepts them or negotiates them:

A rule is a statement that tells you what is allowed or what will happen within a particular system, in this case, a relationship. Rules are enforced. When you place rules on your relationship or your partner, you are putting limits on their behavior.
A boundary is a line that marks the limits of an area. In a relationship, a boundary focuses on you- what do you need, what are your limits? You can communicate where your boundaries are to your partner. The behavior they choose once you’ve done that is left in their hands, rather than being dictated by a rule you imposed on them.

So the boundaries I set for myself with Glenn would be:

No discussion about leaving Justin or moving in with him
No asking about my primary relationship
Always share my true feelings about Glenn
Always let Justin know, I love Glenn but I will never leave you for him
Make sure Justin knows I love him and remain unchanged or better because of my relationship with Glenn
Always let Justin know when I’m seeing him, and if I end up spending the night let him know so he doesn’t think something happened to me.
Let him see my text messages from Glenn so everything is transparent
If he is ever jealous reassure him I am in love with him like no other and I’m not leaving
Make sure he always knows that
Basically I’m in a committed relationship with him that does not have potential to become my primary relationship.
Maybe I forgot a few things but they all lead to make sure Justin knows this all the time. If he at some point reaches that level with Nicole, I would expect the same.
This might sound strange but I in a reserved way want him to get there with Nicole, she is a sweetheart, and this isn’t the reason, but she really needs to experience what a really polished guy is like, so when she is ready, she will know. She has more horror stories than me. If I know one thing, Justin will never choose another woman over me, he has proven that, and I feel the same way, I will never choose another man over him. The most amazing part of this - no hypnosis! We are going about this with clear minds. I text Nicole and told her Justin and her Saturday night at 7. I told her I would be back by 8 am at the latest. She said, I don’t even know what to say. How about if me and Justin make you breakfast this time? I got home and cried for an hour today. You are such a sweetheart Amber! I totally admire you and Justin. Someday I’d love to have what you two have, I see the love it is amazing! If you change your mind about me and Justin just let me know ok? I told her I won’t. Nobody ever made me feel like him, not just in the bedroom. Justin really got teary hearing her relationship experiences. She is such a sweet women, how does that happen. He knows she is struggling, did you see her car? It is really old. I get moved by people with hard lives like that not of their own doing. He sat down with me and said he wants to buy her a car. Even if I never see her again ever, it isn’t about that at all but I’m afraid she may think that. I know you way too well. You never have a bad motive, your heart is genuine. If you truly feel that way, you should, I agree with you. That’s one of many reasons I love you so much. I would not be surprised if there is a car in the driveway soon for her. Time to go cuddle with Justin.

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We had our own little love fest last night. It was nice to have Justin’s full attention. I can see if anything, he loves and appreciates me all the more. Probably equal to that, it has given him a new perspective on my relationship with Glenn after having a little taste of his own this weekend. I think whatever concerns he may have had about my relationship with Glenn have eased up considerably. Maybe it is partly due to my old Justin becoming more and more fully restored. Whatever the case, he doesn’t have to worry. I think I have been very aware of my need to communicate with Justin about it and manage my time with Glenn well. That will change before he leaves for 10 days (ugh). I definitely will be spending more time with him before he goes, and when he comes back. Justin understands, and is very supportive. I love our new venture. It is hypno free, and has really opened our communication lines even more. We have both read countless articles on the urgency of open and honest feelings and everything else. There are no hard and fast rules except the obvious safety first always, and do not neglect your primary relationship. There are a lot of subjects to talk about and negotiate to a point both are comfortable. Those should be discussed frequently if changes are needed. Ultimately most couples get to the point where they really get genuine happiness out of their partners enjoyment with someone else, and that’s when it really becomes special and completely enhances the relationship. It is what we will strive for!

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I have to agree with Amber. I feel like our relationship is already getting stronger. We talk a lot, but we are really talking now, and the conversations are very important and at times difficult ones. I never in my life thought I’d be in a polymourus relationship with anyone, but the more I read about it, the more I’m seeing they tend to be much more rewarding and loving relationships and outperform monogamous relationships. I’m not sure where Nicole fits into all this, she is a stunningly beautiful woman, and very humble and likable. We’ll see. I’m sure we will make mistakes, but Amber is the same or better Amber with Glenn, and I see it. We did a lot of talking some of it with Amber sitting on my lap, and between hugs and kisses expressing some difficult things. It isn’t easy I can tell talking about being in love with another man. One would think that would be hard to accept, and at times it is, but I’m understanding this whole concept and my goal is to embrace my trust in her and feel genuine happiness for her. It seems so counterintuitive and it is, but in the end if you have a strong relationship, and you do most or all of the right things it will be very rewarding. I am all in on working towards that. So the obvious came up after Nicole left. Amber asks me how Nicole’s boobs looked, because she is apparently a 34DD. I have to be honest, she is pretty close to Amber’s size and build, and they looked awesome on her. Amber said see I told you. She said Nicole was trying on some of Amber’s dresses, and I looked at her and they looked so much better on her. I told her I have never seen her in anything where she didn’t look like a knockout. So now the implants are becoming a conversation. She already got the number and name of the guy that did hers. She even asked Nicole if she set up a consultation, if she would go with her, because she wants the same size and shape. She asked me if I would go too. I said yes I will go. She is going to call today. I honestly thought they would be way too big for her, but after seeing Nicole who is similar size, I was wrong. I told her she gets so much attention already, you will have eyes glued to your breasts. The odd thing is she told me at one time she gets hit on by women more than men. Wow. After her experience with Nicole she may like that. That’s a whole other conversation we had. Including what happens if we are both having sex with Nicole? Which is in a sense already happening. That is more difficult to set boundaries for, could it just lead to total jealousy? We have to see how that transpires. I love Amber so much, and her mind is so open right now. She said I love it here because I can dress anyway I want and see whoever I want and no one is talking! I agree!

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Justin and I just sat down so I could tell him my needs with Glenn coming up. I will be seeing him today at 4. I will be home by 5-5.30, and will make us dinner. He leaves on the 23rd to go see his Mom. The weekend before he leaves the 19th and 20th I want to spend those two nights with him, and the night before he leaves the 22nd also so I can see him as he leaves. He should be home New Year’s Day at 9-9:30 and I want to be at his house then, and since the 2nd and 3rd is the weekend I want to stay over the 2nd and 3rd as well. Just to let you know, this isn’t the norm or a change of any kind. I love you, but I am going to go 10 days without him, so the extra time is so needed. Justin, said I know this is going to be hard for you and I understand. I’m ok with that. I love you. I gave Justin a big hug, told him there is no one that will ever replace you. I was worried he might think that was too much time, but it is only because there is such a gap, it will be hard.

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I agreed to share all my texts with Glenn with Justin. The key to all this is honest and open communication, even if it feels like it may be hard for your primary partner to read, but in the end if you don’t hide anything he will be more secure with your relationship with your other committed relationship, and in time it will become less threatening. Basically I shared with Glenn I will be spending some nights with him before and after he leaves. He shared his excitement. I also told him we needed more time together outside the bedroom to build our love and relationship, so after he returns, I would love to spend a few nights a month with him as well. We can’t just continue to make love to each other and That is it, but to be clear, this isn’t changing our relationship, it is just to strengthen it. He said I’m glad you want that, I do to, I love you so much. I said I love you too. I gave my phone to Justin and I said this doesn’t change how I feel about you, or Glenn. I’m going to be honest, open, and transparent always. I am never going to leave you. I love you like I can love no other. This went over really well, he is doing everything he can to follow our guidelines and I believe he truly is. I somehow Feel like I should be concerned about him and Nicole spending an entire night together, but truthfully I am not, and surprising myself. I’m really getting into the camp that if we are completely truthful about everything and never take our own relationship this could be so incredible. My love for him is already growing. He has expressed the same, and our personal sex life is as good as ever. Justin won’t tell you this but he planned a romantic dinner for us last night candles, mood music, and telling me why he loves me so much.

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Nicole just text me. She thanked me for doing her hair and makeup. She also thanked “us” for the best weekend she ever had. She also asked me again if she really was ok I was going to be with just Justin, and over night as well? She doesn’t want to interfere with our relationship. I told her, as long as she wants to, I really want you to be with Justin, you are not interfering at all, you are an enhancement, we love having you, you are so sweet, and beautiful. She said I would love to be with Justin, I’m just afraid I could never Live up to you with him. I told her you don’t have to be me, you just have to be you. She said thank you, if You ever feel I am interfering please let me know right away ok? I just told her I don’t think that is a concern.

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Amber gave my number to Nicole and said go ahead and text him if you want. I get a text from her, hi Justin this is Nicole, is this ok? I said sure Nicole, hope your having a great day. She said thanks you too. I was telling Amber I’m a little nervous about Saturday. I have to try and live up to Amber, and she is so amazing and beautiful, I can’t live up to that. I said first, let’s start with if you are ok with doing this, that is most important to me. Second, you don’t have to be Amber, just be Nicole. My opinion, so you know is, you are a very sweet, sexy and beautiful woman. That’s the woman I saw this weekend, and I like her, as does Amber. She typed back wow! You just have a way to settle someone’s fears, and yes I want to do this. That is great! I’m looking forward to it. Just remember nothing has to happen unless you want it to ok? She said thank you for that, I have to get back to work, see you Saturday:). I just added text me anytime is fine. I’m not sure where this is going, a lot of that will be answered Saturday night I’m sure. Shared the text with Amber. She said she’s so pretty and sweet, her self esteem needs a lift. I said Yeah I think your right. She needs some positive people in her life, maybe that will be us.

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Maybe it is a bit selfish, but I hope Justin and Nicole find something. I feel a little guilty despite of the circumstances of me falling in love with Glenn to begin with, and Justin has had to cope with it, and he really has accepted it. Fully embraces it now. Once he gets to that point hopefully, he will really see how nice it is, but fully understand it comes with its own needs. My hope is if he gets there we can schedule over nights on the same night’s so we have more time together. Right now if I do an overnight he has to be alone, which can’t be good. Then my over nights with Glenn become more frequent and my time with Justin is not impacted. I think my relationship with Glenn would get closer and have a better chance to survive. Can’t just be all sex. I’m starting to realize that.

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Some polyamorists, however, report that the process of negotiating relationships outside of the norm inevitably fosters emotional intimacy through the amount of communication, honesty, and self-growth that comes with crafting these unconventional relationships.

Telling lies means negotiating in bad faith, a breach of poly community norms that prize honesty above all else. Most importantly, without honesty, it is very difficult to feel safe and trust that partners will live up to safer-sex and other agreements.

Building trust takes telling the truth even when it is difficult or inconvenient.

When discussing their relationship style, polys routinely point to their abundance of love and often compare loving multiple partners to loving multiple children. Polys point out that parents do not stop loving the children they have simply because they have another child. Rather, their love grows to encompass that new child and still includes previous children. In that same way, polys can still love their former partners even though they fall in love with someone else as well.

I see the engine for all this is as soon as someone can’t tell the truth and lies, it is over. You are doomed! It is the most vital ingredient, even if you have to expose how much you love your secondary partner, or anything difficult to talk about, has to be talked about. The backbone is communication and never break trust with a lie.

I have been reading so many positive stories and shrinks included. I think we will thrive. Our relationship is very strong, our trust is very strong, we communicate well. I know Amber will not break trust and she already shares difficult things with me like a series of over nights. It makes me more comfortable that she can share everything feelings included. When my time comes, I will absolutely do the same!

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Amber text me, said don’t text back. I’m staying over Glenn’s until about 7. Nothing to worry about just need some extra time with him now. I love you so much!

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This says it all:

Some polyamorists, however, report that the process of negotiating relationships outside of the norm inevitably fosters emotional intimacy through the amount of communication, honesty, and self-growth that comes with crafting these unconventional relationships.

That is already happening. The negotiating, communication, and real tough honesty. I’m understanding what her needs are in her other relationship, and my mind is clear and not all tainted up. All I can think about is Saturday. I have to know if we are heading anywhere. I’m feeling all this excitement on a possibility, she is in love. I understand much better what she needs. I want to experience that myself. I feel so strongly drawn to her allowing me this. I love you so much Amber! I think we found something perfect for us!

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This has been a difficult night for me. Amber left the house and said she would be home around 5 and will make dinner for us. At 5:30 I get a text from her saying don’t text back, I will be home around 7, so I guess that meant I was eating alone. Then when she got home it felt worse. She said she was making dinner for her and Glenn. It left me feeling like she chose him over me, and just started wondering what is happening, are we ok? It is the most important thing of all. Trust, and when you make a schedule sometimes things happen, but when you make plans with your primary partner to make dinner for us, and then instead you make dinner for your secondary partner instead that really hurts. It makes you mind start running away from you. Does she want me with Nicole so she can gradually be with Glenn more? It hurts. She apologized many times and wanted to make love, but my mood just wasn’t right. Maybe this isn’t so right for us. Your primary partner has to always feel first and secure. I don’t want to be with Nicole right now, and I don’t want her having any over nights til we figure this out.

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I asked her to please stop seeing Glenn for now, I’m feeling really really insecure right now. She never did anything like this before, and then I think about how she needs to see Glenn more, I’m scared.

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I asked her to think about this. What if I was going to Nicole’s and when I left the house I said when I get back we will go to the movies, I will be back at 5. Then I call you at 5:30 and tell you not to text me back. So the movie is now too late, ala dinner, and I come home and say, sorry I took Nicole to the movies? I just want you to think about that. She is crying now and I can’t help her because I am not feeling very loving right now, I feel really scared

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I just read what Justin wrote. I completely fucked up in so many ways. I broke all the rules. I did not intend it to turn out this way, but I am not relinquishing responsibility. I totally fucked up. Glenn said why don’t we have dinner together? Without thinking I said what do you want and I will make it. I started and realized I told Justin I’d be home at 5, I need to call him. Mistake #1 taking time away from Justin and making time for Glenn. Mistake #2 doing for Glenn what I said I was going to do for Justin. I thought by calling it was ok. He couldn’t respond to me, that is bad. Mistake #3, if he could of text me back, And said what he was feeling, I would have been home in 10 minutes. He wrote an example, and I did think of it. I would feel the same way he feels right now, he is feeling very insecure and I know that feeling very well, the wheels start coming off and you start thinking all the other things she is doing, as he mentioned. I can’t write anymore. I’m going out to Justin right now and tell him I am not going to see Glenn anymore. It is going to hurt, but not as much as your hurting right now, and not as much as it would hurt losing you. You are and always be my man, forever. I have to earn your trust and security back, that means no more Glenn, because you will always be more important to me than anyone always. Tonight I didn’t make you feel that way, tonight I start showing you it is that way. I love you more than I could ever love anyone!

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I don’t know where to begin. Justin and I were up until 5 am. I don’t think either of us have any tears left. Justin is an amazing man. He is strong as an ox physically, but never threatens anyone. He is also very sensitive and giving. If there is an opportunity to do the right thing, he does it. He hates seeing people he knows struggle, because he knows he can help them. When he heard Nicole’s story he embraced her, not for what he could get from her, but for what he could give. There is nothing pretentious about this man, he lives as if he is poor, he says he is not material at all, and he lives that way. Relationships with people mean the most for him. His grandfather did so much more than leave him money, he molded him into a magnificent man. I call him Superman because he is! Nicole when we were alone in our bedroom was telling me, don’t ever lose Justin, he is amazing and she wasn’t just referring to in bed. He is a great lover because he puts all his energy into making sure his partner gets more out of it than him. Last night he emptied all his emotions. He had to leave the room a few times just to compose himself. He said it wouldn’t have been so bad if I didn’t get home in time to make us dinner if I didn’t make the decision that I’ll make dinner for Glenn and I instead. That tore me apart. All I could think of was you chose him over me. Then what I didn’t know. He said I felt a personal responsibility for you falling in love with Glenn, but not of a clear mind, an altered one. When I normalized, I owned it. I knew it would hurt you to give him up, so deep down I felt responsible, and took the hurt myself. If you think it is fun being home alone while your woman is making love to another man, or spending the night with him, I cried a lot, and finally stopped the pity party and accepted it. You never offered to stop, or consider those feelings, and I’m not blaming you for that, how would you know? You’re in love. I told you I’d never hurt you, I never will. I took the hurt and absorbed it. Then tonight, I felt the pain of absorbing it all. I took more more of the pain because all I could think of is what is really going on there? Is she planning a life with him? Is he becoming or already is her primary relationship? It took him 3 times in and out of the room to get this out. I never felt so awful in my life. I have the best man in the world and I guess I assume everything is ok, when he is fighting to protect me and my emotions at the expense of his own. I said to him you are an amazingly perfect man. He stopped me and said that is totally not true, I have a lot of flaws and I try to be aware of them. I told him to me you are a perfect partner. I’m not so perfect, I’m going to make mistakes, and tonight I made a monster sized emotional mistake regarding your security and trust. I can only change it by showing you and earn it. I promise you I will do whatever it takes. There is so much more but I am physically, mentally, and emotionally drained right now. I am going to lie down with Justin.

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That was futile. Justin was sound asleep, and as much as I need a hug right now, I don’t want to bother him. I’m venting here now, I can’t sleep. Justin asked me what exactly am I getting from Glenn. I have asked myself that 100 times. When I met you, I was coming out of a relationship train wreck. I refused you only because I made a promise to myself not to date for 6 months. I had a lot of therapy regarding relationships, my self esteem everything. I read self help books. I fell in love with you on our first date, not attached love but your sweetness, kindness, and thoughtfulness. I fell in love with your attention that you gave me, always putting me first, ALWAYS! You have been so good for me. In another way, think of what your grandpa did for you. You have done that for me. Nobody could replace your grandpa. So think of that this way, no one can replace you! Last night I made you feel like they could, THEY CANT! Glenn is another set of arms around me. The sex is kind of a confirmation that he loves me. I often conflate sex with love. I am a needy woman, when it comes to my man. You are a giving man, love the closeness and tenderness of a woman in his arms, most men cringe at a needy woman, you embrace it. I love that about you. Glenn is an added feel good, he gives me the confirmation that I am liked/loved. I’m not sure if I’m in love with him, or in love with the confirmation he gives me. The sex is neither bad or really good. It feels wonderful because it validates me as a desirable woman. It isn’t at all because you don’t fulfill me enough, you fulfill me in every way at an extremely high level. Another part is I love sex. Part of that I’m sure is because it validates me, because I am needy and insecure. You had stripped me of those insecurities when it comes to you. I believe your love for me is exactly as shown, it never stops or takes a day off. That is why I wanted you to have fun, enjoy something that I was already doing. Maybe you’d get something enjoyable from Nicole, different from the enjoyment I get from Glenn. I assure you being with Glenn does not take anything away from how I feel about you. I know anything that you may feel with Nicole will never take away what you give to me, you have proven that every day. I think we can still do this, I have to prove that to you. With that and many tears he fell asleep in my arms in bed, and said I don’t love you any less, I love you more, we can fix this.